What to do with TT OOP?

Godfather80 · #1 09-14-2005, 12:44 PM

PL home game. 8 players. $.25/.50 blinds. Preflop max raise is to $3.

Stacks: Hero has ~$45 in MP. Villain (button) has hero covered.

Reads: Villain is a natural LAG but very tricky and able to switch gears. He hasn't shown down a bad hand in over an hour while winning a few pots on real hands shown and a few more on folds.

Preflop: 1 fold. EP limps. Hero raises to $2 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. 1 fold. Villain (button) reraises to $4.50. SB folds. BB folds. EP folds. Hero calls.

Flop ($10.25): Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

Hero bets $8. Villain raises to $20. Hero?

Thoughts:

My preflop raise was standard for me and for the table. I am seen as a good solid player. When villain reraised on button, he could have been putting me on a steal because the BB is a weak player. Villain's hand range preflop is probably 88-AA & AT-AK.

I didn't really know what else to do on the flop other than make a serious sized bet and re-evaluate. Villain has position on me and I find it difficult to make him make a mistake in this position. When he raises to $20, I think it is push or fold time because I am pot committed anyway.

Thoughts?

#2 09-14-2005, 01:01 PM

I think you have to fold here based on your read. You took a stab at the pot on the flop and he came over the top of you again. I think you have to put him on AA-QQ or AQ here.

#3 09-14-2005, 01:10 PM

Sounds like you're probably beat. I think the chances of him bluffing are too slim to make a push here. If he does have you beat, you don't have many outs, 2 Ts or a runner straight. I'd say fold.

Godfather80 · #4 09-14-2005, 07:37 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Sounds like you're probably beat. I think the chances of him bluffing are too slim to make a push here. If he does have you beat, you don't have many outs, 2 Ts or a runner straight. I'd say fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Does anybody else think his flop raise makes it unlikely he has a better hand than TT? Example, if he holds AA or KK, why raise now when only a set will call? If he holds QQ, this raise is even stranger. The only hand that I could see him making this play with that beats me is JJ.

Considering what he must put me on preflop (TT-AA, AK) I think that if he flopped a better hand than TT, his natural play would be to smooth call to extract more from my worse hands and pay off less to my better ones.

Am I way off here?

xorbie · #5 09-14-2005, 07:43 PM

Most people don't think that well. One of the key things in playing poker is making the best play against a particular opponent, not against yourself. If you had a read that this guy slowplays his good hands, go with it. There's no point in us telling us you played it poorly and you defending yourself based on a read. If you were right, NH.

But, in a vacuum, against your average player with $50 in front of him, this is a clear fold.

Godfather80 · #6 09-14-2005, 07:47 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Most people don't think that well. One of the key things in playing poker is making the best play against a particular opponent, not against yourself. If you had a read that this guy slowplays his good hands, go with it. There's no point in us telling us you played it poorly and you defending yourself based on a read. If you were right, NH.

But, in a vacuum, against your average player with $50 in front of him, this is a clear fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're exactly right and that is why I folded after thinking for a bit. The trouble is that villain fluctuates between playing well enough for me to consider calling and thinking I have the best hand; and, just playing regular old bet good hands, call draws, fold bad ones.

I thought I could find a better spot then, and I did. Just wanted to see whether what I was thinking about before I folded made sense to anybody else.

Villain did not mention what he held afterwards.

jonnyUCB · #7 09-14-2005, 08:30 PM

ch/fold the flop. Unless he thinks your preflop standards are very loose (you already stated he views you as solid so his reraise deserves some respect), this is an easy check fold.

Godfather80 · #8 09-14-2005, 08:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
ch/fold the flop. Unless he thinks your preflop standards are very loose (you already stated he views you as solid so his reraise deserves some respect), this is an easy check fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly the way a tricky LAG wants you to play though, right? If I'm doing this, then I'm basically calling his $2.50 preflop reraise to win $7.50(getting 3:1)with 2 outs to make trips. I'm ~7:1 to flop trips, plus if I hit them he may just go away which kills my implied odds. So, what's the point of the preflop call if I'm just check-folding the flop?

jonnyUCB · #9 09-14-2005, 08:46 PM

If you hit trips and lead, why do you think hes going away? Seems like hes paying off if you have 99 in this hand. Limit his range when he reraises you preflop. How often has he done this to you/other players at the table? Any hands shown down?

If you're convinced you have the best hand just check/call down, or check/call flop, lead turn.

Why would he flop raise? Cause players who underestimate LAGs would think a Q (or TT) is good here. Obviously you don't need a set to call a LAG but you have to incorporate his preflop reraise into your analysis.