Canterbury 8/16, Preflop question

[dcarlc]

9 handed. This game is loose as they come.

5 limpers to me in hijack, I have pocket 9's, If I limp last 2 are coming in with almost any 2. If I raise I've got a chance at getting the button. Cutoff and button are regulars(more money than game). No matter what the action the blinds are coming in(Raise, Reraise no matter). More on hand a little later.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

You have to raise. Your hand is not better than that you want as few people as possible to compete with you for the blinds/ pot. QQ-KK-AA you could have limped for your reasons. QQ probably marginal.

[Evan]

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QQ-KK-AA you could have limped for your reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]
No way.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Sorry, my bad. I misread OP, for some reason I thought folded to hero, of course QQ-AA should be raised in this scenario.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Think it may involuntarily qualify my first post for worst advice ever. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[sy_or_bust]

I disagree. This is a huge multiway pot, where cutting down opponents is wishful thinking. You raise, but the primary reason is the pure profit from set value. If you can nab the button or catch a favorable non-set flop, that's nice too, but sets are most important, and most profitable, against a loose-passive field.

And you realize that limping AA/KK/QQ here gives up at least 7 small bets preflop, right?

You should raise preflop for value. Any pocket pair figures to win more than its fair share in an 8-10 handed pot, so it can raise profitably. Larger pairs win more often unimproved. The primary value of low-mid PPs now derives from sets and full houses, which is why 22 can raise here also. AA/KK win so often UI that sets are less important, but this has nothing to do with not raising. These hands are even more valuable to raise.

[donny5k]

[ QUOTE ]
I disagree. This is a huge multiway pot, where cutting down opponents is wishful thinking. You raise, but the primary reason is the pure profit from set value. If you can nab the button or catch a favorable non-set flop, that's nice too, but sets are most important, and most profitable, against a loose-passive field.

And you realize that limping AA/KK/QQ here gives up at least 7 small bets preflop, right?

You should raise preflop for value. Any pocket pair figures to win more than its fair share in an 8-10 handed pot, so it can raise profitably. Larger pairs win more often unimproved. The primary value of low-mid PPs now derives from sets and full houses, which is why 22 can raise here also. AA/KK win so often UI that sets are less important, but this has nothing to do with not raising. These hands are even more valuable to raise.

[/ QUOTE ]
You realize if you "raise for set value" you're going to get around 7 to 1 pot odds on a ~7.5 to 1 shot? This thinking makes no sense. If you said you are raising so that people will be tied to the pot when you do flop a set, that's fine. But in this case people will be tied to the pot anyway because they are loose.

That said, 99 isn't purely a set value hand so I think this is a raise. However, 22 is NOT a raise.

[somapopper]

[ QUOTE ]
You realize if you "raise for set value" you're going to get around 7 to 1 pot odds on a ~7.5 to 1 shot? This thinking makes no sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

B&M. Eight to the flop. If 8 more big bets don't go in this pot I'm an arabian monkey.

[peterchi]

[ QUOTE ]
You have to raise. Your hand is not better than that you want as few people as possible to compete with you for the blinds/ pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm not really clear on what you're trying to say. We already have 5 limpers. I think that I would raise because it's fun, but I don't see what's so wrong with limping along for set value. You're gonna dislike about 70% of the flops that come, right?


[ QUOTE ]

QQ-KK-AA you could have limped for your reasons. QQ probably marginal.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't understand this part at all.

[Chris Daddy Cool]

[ QUOTE ]
but I don't see what's so wrong with limping along for set value. You're gonna dislike about 70% of the flops that come, right?


[/ QUOTE ]

you realize you'll dislike about 70% of the flops when you have AK/AQ right? so thats not a good argument for not raising 99.