Fear of success

[judgesmails]

There are times in my life where if things are going really well, I do something to sabotage it. Nothing really drastic or truly self-destructive - but something just enough to add drama or ensure that I will not have an easy time.

This carries over into poker sometimes. If I am having a good session, or good week, I will play sloppy for a while and will tend to bluff too frequently. If I have a big chip lead in a tourney I will overplay my big stack.

I think this tendency has something to do with a fear of success – at least success how it is commonly seen. I am not sure if I have a serious problem with this, because I think I fear failure more. But I think this is holding me back, not just in poker.

Where do these feelings come from and how can I stop them from creeping into my actions?

[TStoneMBD]

i never really understood it when people say they have a fear of success, nor do i really believe in it for the most part. it doesnt make sense to me. the only times when fear of success makes logical sense despite it being illogical of course is if the person is afraid that success might have others pressure him into working harder or maintaining more success. a better description of this fear in my opinion is fear of pressure.

i doubt thats the case here.

youre probably afraid of failure, but that doesnt seem appropriate here since you often tilt away a big stack in a tournament. maybe you are afraid of failure so you intentionally blow your tournament life just so that way you can say "eh i dont care anyway."

bottom line is that these posts on the psychology forum bother me. you get all these replies from people trying to be helpful giving candy advice. in truth, the best advice someone could give you about your problem here is to just stop playing like a retard. its a choice you make. you either tilt or you dont.

Actually, fear of success is a very real situation - but it is VERY closely related to the fear of failure.

For many people, success means pressure - if they do well or win at poker or get a great job, then immediately, it can create anxiety - what if I lose this job? What if I lose all my winnings? etc.

So what these people will do is they will protect themselves from those potential failures by sabotaging their chances to be successful. That way, they can stay in the same situation they are in - one that is likely very comfortable for them, even if they are miserable - because at least this is misery that they understand and know they can deal with.

Thus, fear of success is closely linked to fear of failure.

[Tuben]

I have that problem if it has gone really good for a while then i get too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

And i do bad calls maybe call all ins when i know i have the worst hand. And bluffing more.

But damn if it has gone bad then it is the opositte [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[davet]

I have a theory about this condition. And, yes it is very common. One, is that success creates several problems for an individual. They seem afraid of losing their circle of friends. Even though they all tend to be unsuccesful people.
It is just like the situation where a fat person goes on a diet, exercises, loses weight, and all of his/ her fat friends stop answering the phone when s/he calls.

I believe that succesful people are frightening to most people. They see their boss at work, and how s/he behaves, and doesn't want that for themselves.

Unsuccessful people are addicted to the struggle of going up, it is where all the fun is. Once there, they fear having nothing to wake up for, they always ask "what's next," even though they aren't there yet.

Also, failure is such a dynamic feeling. Every person wants compassion, it feels a lot closer to love than adulation.

If you grew up in a smaller town, where you were taught to be "normal," then there is an ingrained prejudice against success. You grew up seeing all the anger unsuccessful people had, and you don't want that anger directed at you.

Some people thwart success because they don't feel more deserving than the homeless, laborers, and welfare recipients.

Going back to the boss thing. Many bosses seem inhuman, treating employees like toilets. They feel that rich people have no value of human life. Unsuccessful people are too idealistic, and want all the world to lift with them.

So that's my own analyst. I had, and still do fight with these demons, but the more you simply move on, the easier it all gets. Eventually the truth of life breaks down into simpler pieces, and makes winning at poker, and life, a lot easier.

[wickedgoodtrader]

Sounds like you just need more discipline in poker. Fear of success is BS. I am a successful person and I have lost no friends. Half my friends work for me. I think as long as you remain modest and don't go rambling how much money you make, your friends won't be jealous. Even when they ramble about a good night waiting tables or something saying "I made $150 in 2 hours!", I just say good job and praise them. I don't reply "oh ya, I made 12k playing some PL Omaha in 8 hours!"

Fear of success in all the scenarios described so far in this post just sounds like an easy excuse for being a failure and not really that good.

[davet]

There is truly no good excuse for fearing success. This is someting I have thought about alot, because a good portion of my friends are... let's say that at least spiritually, I am considered the richest. It is strange to discover that this really has no standing with them, probably because they already know other successful people who have far more money than I do.

I have been in countless discussions about this topic. If you don't believe me, here is a list of professions (if you can call them that) that you will find myriad people: factory worker, backround extra, paid audience worker, has- been actor, short- order line cook, or go down to your local homeless shelter, ask any drug- free person who has been on the street for years, and you will hear so many excuses of why they don't go to the next level, that you are apt to blowing your brains out.

The first problem is that all of these people have been dejected to their station in life, and none of them are going to advance. One common thought is "what's next," and "my parents."

I personally believe that there is no good excuse for poverty. Most people are never going to change their fundamentals, and ghetto's will always exist. The mind is a hard thing to change. Think of all the people who are content to do the same thing day in and day out, or the foury- five year old OGs.

Poker success and success in general poses a problem because it goes against the paradigms of our society and, in most cases, our upbringing. We are all taught to "play it safe," and "follow the rules." These are like saying "fit or fold." or "let the dealer bust." Successful people break the rules. They don't get married right away, they drop out of college (Bill Gates) they never find a "real" job, or refuse to stay at one.

We all know that real- estate agents, lawyers, finance brokers, and car sales men can all make a large chunk of money. How many of these professions are considered "scuzzy". We grow up listening to "you can never do that" or "that's a one in a million long shot" or "stop dreaming." If these are the words coming from the ones we love, we tend to believe them, and many of us would hate to dissappoint the ones we love.

I am not saying that any of the things I am writing are set in stone, or that these are good excuses, because there really is no good excuse for anything in life. The poster asked why this mindset exists, and this is where all of those demons must come from.

If this all sounds to far- fetched, then tell me why people seldomly move up in the econimic ladders. i know that I am going to here "oh yeah, I know lots of people," I doubt that you know more than five, compare that to the millions that are still poor. And I know some of you will say such and such came from such and such poor country, but never asked how poor or rich their family was, international plane tickets aren't free.

[A_C_Slater]

What you truly seek my brother, is the annhilation of the self.

Wow. You are the first person I've heard acknowlege this but I get these feelings sometimes too. I think it's a subconscious thing where I feel guilty for "stealing" peoples money. It's weird and it s**ks. I try to remind myself "they're trying to steal my money, too". Then I'm usually over it.

But yes, living a certain lifestyle for years and years, and then suddenly having a much more profitable, relaxed lifestyle is a lot to get used to.