Someone PLEASE straighten me out...

[Kevin J]

All players are new to me. 1 limper and I raise from the cutoff with KK. Button cold-calls, blinds folds and limper calls.

The flop is J72r. Limper bets, I raise, button calls two-cold, limper calls.

Turn is T. Limper checks, I bet, button raises, limper calls two-cold, I call.

River is 5 putting up a backdoor flush. Limper bets his last $1 all-in. I call and now button completes it to a full bet. Will I have the best hand often enough to call?

And here's why I suck.. I just can't grasp the way these guys online think. I called the turn hoping to have outs against two-pair (even though there was a straight on board). On the river, I wasn't too concerned about a flush, but it's out there and possible. I was mostly concnerned about two-pair. I thought it should be obvious that I must have at LEAST a jack!!... And if I have a jack, it's at least a GOOD jack. So how can someone "value" bet the river behind me with a worse hand?

Well, I folded and they both chopped it up with QJ. Is there any hope for me online? I really don't think so, because I can't get myself to think right. I can see raising the turn with his QJ. He's going to pay me off anyway, so might as well raise. But it's the follow through bet on the river that gets me every time. It seems to me to be an incredibly stupid bet, but it's a brilliant bet against me, because it becomes a two-way bet. I both pay off AND fold the winner too often.

I'm convinced this is why I can do no better than mediocre online. What do I have to change in my thinking? Any tips?

[rory]

Don't try to look for places to make good laydowns, look for places to make good raises. Be a calling station on the later streets, because on Party Poker, everyone loves to bluff.

-rory

[SpaceAce]

This was an awful laydown. You're getting almost 14:1 on the river and you're closing the action. My opponent would actually have to lay his cards face-up on the table for me to fold at this point. I understand why you felt your KK was beaten but you have to call here unless the button is 200 proof rock with no trace of trickiness.

SpaceAce

[cuse]

I agree with the previous comment... normally. I think that your other hand where you laid down the straight was correct. I can't believe that there was no AJ or flush. Here though, you have to make this call. You have to realize that the turn raise wasn't a bluff... he wasn't trying to move you off a better hand; that player simply believed that top pair third kicker was good against your AK or medium pair. Don't lay down an overpair for 9/10s of a bet on party with an all-in and a huge pot otherwise HU.

[Mikey]

you're making silly folds.

Stop making those open raises from the cutoff with K8s and use that money to make calls like this on the river.



I used to make silly folds. Now I coun't how much money I would lose when I make these silly folds and I make silly folds -No More-.

This is what I do. I call. Ohh you win.... Ok nice hand.

I call. Ohh.... you tried to buy it.... I almost folded, thank goodness I called.

[Kevin J]

But how can he think AK or an underpair will pay him off here? In other words, a bet here should be -EV (and if I wasn't an IDIOT it would've been!!!). I either don't call and if I do, he's beat.. That's the way it should've went down.... If I didn't SUCK!@!!!!!!

[Mikey]

wait, think of what you just said here.

"how can he think AK or an underpair will pay him off here?"

Do you really think that a typical player thinks the way you do? They don't.

They don't think of EV, they don't think about anything except for their hand.

Hence he is playing QJo preflop because those are 2 BIG CARDS and he can make a straight!!!

[steveyz]

You're giving too much credit to your opponent. Also, I've seen AK and smaller pairs call down in this situation before.

[cuse]

Remember, many begining online players will often just decide that your preflop raise was AK. If neither card hits they assume that you will still always bet as they would, so they raise their pair. You choose not to reraise, so they decide their hand is good.

Then on the river they aren't thinking that only a better hand can call them, and will make bets that if called can only result in a loss. When you fold they think they bluffed you out, when you call and show them the winner they think you read their bluff.

[AustinDoug]

We see ourselves in others. You are assuming that they play like you and they are assuming that you play like them. Since they will bluff to the river with AK, they assume that you will do the same.