Don't throw that away!

[PYITE]

3-6 @ the Taj last night..want some opinions on whether this is OK or not... I took a little abuse for it

Very short.

3 bet pre-flop, 3 players (position irrevelent)

flop 678....bet, fold, call
turn 9....bet, call
river 10....bet

Now I'm sitting next to our caller. He is just awful, cashed in for $200 in the 2 hours or so I've been there. He thinks, and thinks, and thinks. Then flashes me J 4 off and mucks, kind of. He threw them about halfway to the muck and tells the other player "good hand".

I pipe up and say "no no no!" and he and the dealer grab the cards at the same time. She fips the cards over and pushes him a very nice pot. He thanked me and said he's still learning and he didn't see it.

Our bettor was not happy with me and let it be known. I see it as more chips for the bad player to give to me.

2 questions...
(1) What is considered a muck where you play?
(2) Should I have kept my yap shut and saved myself the toungue-lashing?

[Bob T.]

(1) What is considered a muck where you play?
(2) Should I have kept my yap shut and saved myself the toungue-lashing?


1 - The cards are dead when they touch the muck.

2 - You clearly violated the one player to a hand rule. If he tables his hand, then you are obligated to point out the straight if the dealer doesn't see it, but when you are sweating his hand, you shouldn't say a thing. I kind of agree with the bettor here, you should have kept your mouth shut. Because it is probably the lowest limit in the room, and he was clearly a beginner, there might be a little more grey area here, than otherwise, but I don't think that you should have stepped in here.

[RockLobster]

Yikes. While this was the gentlemanly thing to do, it is not something that the other players will appreciate. Not at all.

(1) What is considered a muck where you play?
Hitting the <FOLD> button when it is your turn to act [img]/forums/images/icons/grin.gif[/img].
Well, I think there's a ruling about cards hitting the discard pile, but can clearly be identified, then you can still play them. But it also has to do with action taking place behind you, etc.

(2) Should I have kept my yap shut and saved myself the toungue-lashing?
Yes.

[fluffhead]

I'm assuming he called on the river right?

Muck is definitely if the cards hit the discard pile. There may be some gray area here. If the cards are thrown towards the discard pile, it may be considered a fold anyways.

While it was probably the wrong thing to do at the time, I think your motive (get him more money for you to take) is perfectly sound. It's borderline poor etiquette, and maybe even bad karma, b ut if it makes you money, and it's not THAT horrible of a move, then I think it was a pretty good call.

[bad beetz]

you should not have said anything, you were not involved in the hand.

[SoBeDude]

I'd say that if you knew before the hand that he was a noob, then you're action is excusable and maybe even justified.

-Scott

[Ulysses]

Both you and the dealer were 100% wrong. The dealer should have mucked the hand, not turned it over. You should have kept your mouth shut.

There's no ambiguity here. You speaking up was the same as someone sitting behind him speaking with him about his hand. If that were the case, wouldn't you say the guy was cheating? You clearly broke the rules here.

[Bob T.]

Both you and the dealer were 100% wrong. The dealer should have mucked the hand, not turned it over.

In the description, the player reached out, and grabbed his hand as the dealer was picking it up, so the hand never touched the muck, and was live.

[Ulysses]

You're correct, Bob. I missed the part where the player grabbed the cards at the same time as the dealer. I mistakenly thought the dealer flipped over the cards when the poster said "No, no, no!"

I retract the part of my statement about the dealer being 100% wrong. Besides maybe not mucking the hand fast enough, the dealer was OK. I still stand by my statement that the poster was absolutely wrong in his action.

[bernie]

player next to me, sweating my handspeak.

you deserved the tongue lashing. one player to a hand, sir. i wouldve been a little pissed too. youre involvment in the hand is over after you folded.

hope youre on the recieving end of it sometime.

bad, bad move on your part. this isnt a team game here.

you want to really help him? tell him after he mucks that he had the higher str8. the loss of the pot will stay with him, and he wont be folding like that again.

been playin cards long? this is a basic rule

b