flop a set, how to extract? - Page 2

schwza · #11 12-02-2005, 02:10 PM

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The Ace on the turn probably kills your action but I bet anyways to not let your opponent back into a hand for free (flush or straight) that can beat you.

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the A could've helped me - one likely hand for villain is a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], which he probably c/r's a-i.

Toro · #12 12-02-2005, 02:21 PM

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The Ace on the turn probably kills your action but I bet anyways to not let your opponent back into a hand for free (flush or straight) that can beat you.

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the A could've helped me - one likely hand for villain is a [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]x [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], which he probably c/r's a-i.

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Yes it could have. All the more reason to bet which it appears you did. You played right, imo. A lot of players erroneously think you can extract more by checking. Checking doesn't make the pot bigger. Bet.

jcm4ccc · #13 12-02-2005, 02:59 PM

I would bet the turn, but only because it looks more bizarre if you don't, given that you reraised the flop. Not betting will raise more alarm bells than betting.

Still, I would bet the turn a bit more weakly, as if you are afraid of the ace. Probably 250 or 300, which also gives incorrect odds to draw to the flush.

SossMan · #14 12-02-2005, 03:05 PM

I thought of all the different lines (raise more on the flop, check behind the turn, bet bigger/smaller on the turn). It looks like the line you took is best. If the ace kills your action, it's going to kill it for a 3/4 pot bet or a 1/2 pot bet or a full pot bet. You might lose a marginal draw if you bet full pot, so 2/3 - 3/4 looks just about right.

The straightforward line is usually still best. Don't get too cute.

Yuv · #15 12-02-2005, 03:19 PM

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don't remember reads. empire $100.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter

SB (t905)
BB (t978)
UTG (t631)
UTG+1 (t1465)
MP1 (t665)
Hero (t1590)
MP3 (t400)
CO (t1312)
Button (t955)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t30, 1 fold, Hero calls t30, 4 folds, BB checks.

Flop: (t105) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB bets t30, UTG+1 raises to t100, Hero raises to t275, BB folds, UTG+1 calls t175.

Turn: (t685) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets t400,

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Raise flop to 350-450. Check turn behind. Watch him blows his stack on the river (with a big bet on a blanked river, if he checks. I expect him to fire though).

Works for me nearly every time. Try to represent something like Q6 who's afraid of AQ.

Obviously, that's getting cute, as Soss said. You can : a) get oudrawn. b) lose money you would have won with a turn bet. If you are dying to double up, I find the above line the best when flopped sets.

sdplayerb · #16 12-02-2005, 04:08 PM

i check this turn. i put him on a Q, and not a huge hand, and not a draw. So i'll give him a chance to hit his card as the A has likely killed my action.

SossMan · #17 12-02-2005, 04:12 PM

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i check this turn. i put him on a Q, and not a huge hand, and not a draw. So i'll give him a chance to hit his card as the A has likely killed my action.

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I like the line better when there is no flush draw on the flop. Not saying that he necessarily has clubs, but he can certainly put us on it if we check behind here. That might now allow him to go off on the river (which is really the only reason to check behind on the turn).

I love the line if the flop is rainbow (even if the turn puts a backdoor flush draw up).

schwza · #18 12-02-2005, 04:20 PM

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i check this turn. i put him on a Q, and not a huge hand, and not a draw. So i'll give him a chance to hit his card as the A has likely killed my action.

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I like the line better when there is no flush draw on the flop. Not saying that he necessarily has clubs, but he can certainly put us on it if we check behind here. That might now allow him to go off on the river (which is really the only reason to check behind on the turn).

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huh? he's more likely to bet/call/c-r the river (that's what "go off" means, right?) if he thinks we have a missed flush draw, right? so aren't you arguing that that makes checking the turn more appealing if there is flush draw on the flop?

sdplayerb · #19 12-02-2005, 04:36 PM

i agree i prefer it if it is rainbow.
but online a ton, not all, players would only raise in the first place if they also had an overcard, and then if they did would then push it allin thinking they are 50/50 (flush and overcard).
therefore, I am not putting him on that.

if he had a Jc, i would think he has JTc, and again would push with the openender/flush draw..and be right to do so.

so again, i don't put him on those draws. i put him on a Q or something where he is drawing dead against me...won't call here if i bet...thus a time to slowplay as i don't see any other way to get money out of him.

I could bet 100 or something like that i guess.
but if i am betting, i wouldn't bet more than 1/3 of the pot in attempt to make him have to call, or maybe try to look scared of that card myself.

this is one of the few situations in which i would do this.

SossMan · #20 12-02-2005, 05:03 PM

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i check this turn. i put him on a Q, and not a huge hand, and not a draw. So i'll give him a chance to hit his card as the A has likely killed my action.

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I like the line better when there is no flush draw on the flop. Not saying that he necessarily has clubs, but he can certainly put us on it if we check behind here. That might now allow him to go off on the river (which is really the only reason to check behind on the turn).

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huh? he's more likely to bet/call/c-r the river (that's what "go off" means, right?) if he thinks we have a missed flush draw, right? so aren't you arguing that that makes checking the turn more appealing if there is flush draw on the flop?

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i mean if a club hits the river, he may be scared that we have one and shut down a bit. That's why I prefer to go ahead and get some money in on the turn and evaluate the river as opposed to getting cute and checking behind on the turn.
So many times, posters are afraid to slowplay a hand because of a flush draw and the opponent might have one. I think that this is wrong in general, but still perhaps the correct play is to not slowplay if a scare card will slow the action anyway.

if the flop was rainbow, then your check behind on the turn doesn't look so much like a flush draw and you can be more sure of getting river action even if a club hits.