3-Questionable opening Hands From Last Night

[Huh]

A 6/7/8-Handed $7.50-$15.00 game (2 chip, 3 chip blind), that had a variety of player types in.

Hand 1:
I limp UTG with As3s. Game was in a slightly passive mode and it was seven handed. Person to my left calls, next person raises (raises on a variety of big-card hands), another calls, blinds call. I call.

Flop is Jc-2h-6s.

Checked to Original Raiser who bets, folded back to me, I call and it’s heads up.
I don’t like this call at all. My thought process was that this pot has grown big, and I think I can move him off of AK/AQ on the turn. I’ve seen him make a couple of lay-downs in larger pots, and was waiting for a scare card.

Turn is 4s. I check, he bets, and I check-raise-semi-bluff. He stares at the board and calls. My afterthought was that this was a terrible spot for this. There aren’t many hands I can represent here.
River is some spade. Yee-haw…Better to be lucky….
I hate the way I played this hand. I think I made a mistake on every street but the river.

Hand 2:
Game was six handed, and I open raise UTG with 55. Players to my left were tight, and I was pretty sure this would get it heads up with the big-blind who defends 100% of the time. The small blind foiled my plan, and comes along. Three handed to a flop of
K 5 9 – two clubs.
SB, bets, BB, calls, I call.
I was going to raise right here. I’m one of the few players in the game who will sometimes come out swinging with the flopped set, but every one was already committed and I wanted to be sneaky this time, and waited to charge any flush draws a double-bet to get to the end.
Turn is an off-suit ten. Checked to me, I bet, SB check-raises, BB mucks, I three-bet he calls.
River is the ten of clubs. Checked to me, I bet, SB check-raises, I was extremely close to mucking my hand. I was 99.9% sure that SB had KT, and there wasn’t a thousand bets in the pot. But I called and saw his KT.
I don’t think I flubbed this one too bad, maybe the open-raise…Maybe not. Anyone else consider mucking here on the end? How about if the flush hand not gotten there. I can’t say exactly why, but I knew my hands was no good, just like I know the sky is blue. Still wonder about the pre-flop raise and the flop check.


Hand 3:
I’m second to act with KK 6 handed. Player from Hand 1 has been raising every time I limp now. Must be trying to isolate the weak player [img]/forums/images/icons/cool.gif[/img] . I limp, he follows script and raises, folded around back to me, and I limp-reraise (I think this is the best feeling in the world….Naw the second best…Actually the third…Oops, forgot about crack…Lets say the fourth.). Board comes rag-rag-rag two-tone. I bet, he calls, turn is an off-suit jack, I bet he calls, river is a queen, I bet he folds.

Comments on all three hands appreciated. Please yell at me for Hand #1, I felt a bit possessed as I was playing the hand. On the flop, I really thought that my ace had very little chance of being good, but thought I had a small-decent chance of dragging the pot with a turn-check-raise.

On hand #2, I figured if I got it heads up and flopped the set, I would slow-play it, if an Ace or a King came up, I would bet it strong.

Hand #3, I am flirting with the Abdul-Preflop stuff. I would have much rather tried this with aces, but the flop/turn seemed to agree with Kings so. One think I noticed is that when you limp re-raise, people are more likely to put you on tilt than a big pocket-pair.

These three hands are not representative of the way I normally play, which is why I posted them. I’ll put im’ in the “mixing it up” file.

Thanks,
-Huh [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[J.A.Sucker]

Hand 1: Realize that a full game would have to be pretty darned good for you to want to play A3s UTG. That said, this isn't a full game, so the question is what you should do with it? I wouldn't limp with it, because I'm not gonna get huge multiway action with it. I would usually fold. However, if the game is getting kind of tight, I would raise it, if I'm gonna play it at all.

On the flop: I think you can fold here. You may have 0 outs, though a 3 is likely better than an A. You think you can "move him off of AK/AQ on the turn." My answer is no you can't! Just lay it down on the flop and move on to the next hand. He's probably thinking: "If I bet, this guy will call me with a bare A... sweet! I'll bet it all the way!"

Turn: If you're gonna make a move, then I like betting out, and if raised, three betting. The checkraise after no flop action just smells worse than my old gym socks, and people will call you down.

River: It's always a good plan to make the nuts.

Hand 2: Open raising with 55 is a fine play, and I would always do this. However, realize that in a shorthanded game and 2/3 structure, it's tough to lose the SB and BB. You're usually gonna take a 3 handed flop. However, you have an automatic ticket to bet here if checked to, and this will often make the pot headsup on the turn. It's not terrible, just not optimal. Now that you flopped a set, then I think waiting and letting all those guys bet your hand for you is great. If they flopped one pair, then they're drawing almost dead. If they flopped 2 pair, then they're still in deep kimchee. In a shorthanded pot, you can ignore flush draw. However, if you're like me, you will pump a flopped draw very hard on the flop, and maybe they will give you action, so I would tend to hammer away right there, knowing that I'll also be in good shape on the turn to raise, since I'm viewed as a maniac sometimes. But either strategy works, and it is often dependent on how you would play a draw here.

Turn: OK.

River: If you fold here, then you're crazy. Just pay him off and say ni han! One of those difficult spots that just sucks.

Hand 3: Limp reraising is fine here. I like the hand all the way down. Too bad he didn't turn a J.

These are just my opinions, but I'm Just Another Sucker.

[Huh]

On hand 1, the game had fallen into a limping lull. There was usually 5+ - family pots, for a bet pre-flop. The flop was almost always half the people for 1 bet. Was a very strange point in the game. That was my reason for the UTG limp. I've admitted that I have a weakness for s00ted aces...Probably not the worst poker indulgence, but I need to cut back.

I agree the flop call was horrendous. The turn was awful too. Not one of my prouder moments...At least I got to show down..I'm sure it made me some extra bets later in the night.

Thanks for the comments,
-Huh [img]/forums/images/icons/confused.gif[/img]

[elysium]

hi huh
hand 1) well, the pre-flop limp is no good; it improves though, a lot, when fortuitously you get heads up. now, you're out of position, however, because you're heads up, and have a runner, runner straight draw with a draw to the nut flush, with the very important A over-card, it's razor thin, but you can check-call the flop. now, you've got to know that you're rooting for any spade to hit on the turn. if it isn't totally clear to you that if a spade hits the turn you have a great semi-bluff check-raise opportunity, then you should not be playing this hand. you must fold pre-flop.

also, you can fold the flop because you normally want a three-card open ended straight with an ace high flush runner, runner. but you've got to know huh that you're playing this hand because you just might get a perfect turn card. if you do, you must know how to handle it. here, you get a perfect 4s. you can't do any better than that. you must semi-bluff check-raise. actually, it's more of a check-raise for value since you will be betting out on the river, no matter what happens. and as i'm typing, i don't think you realize how powerfully you hit the turn.

hand 2) a weak case can be made for hand 1 pre-flop. but, if this is the same game, no case can be made for hand 2. this is a clear pre-flop fold. even in a good aggressive game, this is still a clear fold.

hand 3) i've noticed a curious amount of references to cocaine of late. the good players think it's great. more money.

let's see here, if you're opponent is raising a lot, then raise and four-bet when he three-bets. huh, it's the greatest feeling in the world.

[rtucker5]

Hand 1:

I like the call on the flop with a plan. If you didn't have a plan to take the pot from him on the turn it was a bad call. On the turn you actually have a legitament draw. Nice catch. If you can't bluff them out, nothing better than making the nuts. [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

Hand 2:

Rasie the flop. You raised pre-flop and flopped a set, no need to slow play. Still sucks when someone goes runner runner to beat you (see hand 1 [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] )

Hand 3:

If someone raises virtually everytime you enter a pot, start limping only with hands that can stand a raise. KK can definately stand a raise. Well played.

Note to Huh:

When I return, please un-learn everything you've learned since I have been on hiatus.

[img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img] [img]/forums/images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

rtucker5

[polarbear]

I was your opponent on hands 1 and 3.

Hand #1:

I noticed I was near break-even at 5-10 pokerstars, looked at my hand histories, and noticed I was losing lots of pots open-raising from blind-steal position with big cards after folding to a BB checkraise. I asked about this on 2+2, and the knowledgeable posters gave me the simple solution to check the turn with no pair. Now, I do this when I have position and I think the other player in the pot is capable of pulling such a play, perhaps too much.

In other words, I just about couldn't have AQ or AK. I thought you had something similar to what you had, maybe a pair and a flush draw, or a pair and a gutshot, or something like that, with the small possibility of a set. I don't remember what I had, except that it was something good that I considered it unlikely but possible you could have my hand beat.

From experience, I've learned correctly or not, reraising "to make the draw pay" in this situation is not the right play. Why? Let's look at the two cases, the draw hitting on the river, and the draw missing on the river.

If the draw misses, and I just call on the turn, I'll still collect the second bet on the river when the draw continues the bluff, and maybe a third bet if I raise the river. If I raise the turn, I'll collect two bets on the turn, but nothing on the river when the draw check-folds.

Now if the draw hits, I'll see it's possible, and I won't raise the river. I'll lose two bets if I call the turn and two, three, or four bets if I raise the turn.

So, there's nothing to be gained by raising the turn, and I just called. Of course, this all assumes the semi-bluff draw plays standard strategy, always betting the river regardless of what comes if just called, and not trying anything funny on the river when missing if raised on the turn. If you didn't play standard strategy, then I underestimated you.

Hand #3: I don't "always" raise when you limp in. However, there is a special situation I think you were refering to that I'm far more liberal in what I raise with. It's when you open-limped in late position, and I wanted to play my hand. I had a small pocket pair that didnt make a set that hand, 55 or 66 I remember. Knowing how to play those hands postflop when rags flop and they miss the set is a weakness in my game. To be honest I really didn't know what you had preflop, except that it wasn't a bad hand. Folding on the river, as well as calling the turn and flop, could have all been big mistakes.

Well done making a hand drawing nearly dead pay big.

Hand #2: Didn't the third club come on the turn and the board pair on the river? I remember it was likely that the weak-tight BB, who sometimes was tricky with good hands on the river, had a boat, but that the nut flush was possible. Considering that the BB could have the nut flush and not be bluffing, folding the smallest boat for 1 BB in a 14 BB pot would be a bad play.

[MrGo]

1. I don't like the pre-flop call. The game is somewhat passive, but your positioning doesn't warrant a call here. If you're the CO or button and it's multiway to you, then I can see a call.

2. I like how you played this hand except for the pre-flop raise. Pretty ballsy to open raise with presto. If you're read on the other players was correct in that they were folding, then that warrants your raise somewhat.

3. Hand 3 was ok. I may of slowplayed the Kings and popped him on the turn. But more than likely I raise preflop...hoping you comes over top of me.

Nice comment about crack...Mmm good. haha