Tricky 25/50 Hand

[theBruiser500]

5 handed or so 25/50. I just said "watch out guys I'm on tilt" and then someone rightly pointed out that I wasn't really on tilt. Then a LAG who is kind of crazy made a crazy play and said "see, I am really crazy". He is a little crazy not a maniac though he is an okay/bad player. This LAG calls a lot but isn' aggro although at first I thought he was because he's in so many pots. He never reraises preflop. I have 7k he has me covered.

I open to $150 in the SB with JJ, he raises to $500 I call. Flop is 8h 4h 2c. I check he checks. This is weird, I don't think he'd check here with a high pocket pair. Turn is 4s, what is my plan? I bet out $500 and he raises to $2500. What now? If I decide to play this pot is my move all in?

[AZK]

Hmm, as it played out I probably fold. If you play this pot though I think you are very close to being committed. For some reason, I'm not a big fan of your turn bet. He could make this play with any two cards or top set. Against a guy like this, it sounds like you make more money by check/calling him down. You said he isn't aggro, but he seems to be playing this hand pretty aggressively. I think he could make this play with a big pocket pair because he can bet the turn hard when another heart doesn't hit. I sometimes play big overpairs this way. It prevents me from getting check-raised by people with draws, and when the turn is a brick for them it gives me a lot more leverage... am I way off?

[youngin20]

This is a tough spot with jacks....you really just gotta go with your read here...you said he wouldnt check the flop with an overpair, but what else can he have? Right now I think he is betting about the size of the pot, (a little less) so im not really sure. please post stack sizes because i think stack depth really plays a big part of this hand. is 88 out of the question? if it is i think he played the hand terribly, but what about TT? i think right now his only reasonable holdings that you can beat are AK TT...maybe AQ? I would fold here, but I play more tourney NL...

[n1bd]

[ QUOTE ]
I check he checks. This is weird, I don't think he'd check here with a high pocket pair.

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What was your plan for the hand if he bet the flop?

[theBruiser500]

i don't know, i'd have to feel my way through it very cautiously but not too weak tight

[technologic]

what is your plan when you call preflop? are you hoping to hit a J to double through the LAG?

what is the LAG's position relative to the button pf? i assume since you opened, he's the bb.

are LAG's who are aware that they are crazy really crazy? do you think maybe he might be using the play as an advertising ploy? i really think it's hard for you to be good here, but if you do play it, i think it'd be correct for you to call, check call river with maybe the exception of A/K falling. if you move in, the only hands that you beat that he'll feasibly call with is 99/TT.

[cero_z]

Hi Bruiser,

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He never reraises preflop...I open to $150 in the SB with JJ, he raises to $500 I call.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh oh.

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Flop is 8h 4h 2c. I check he checks... I don't think he'd check here with a high pocket pair.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh oh. The only way I'm betting the turn now is if a non-heart Jack falls. Because, I'm expecting to get raised. I think I'd check, and call a small (<600) bet some of the time, otherwise I'd fold. You are not going to be able to play a big pot profitably here, because there are too many scare cards, what with all the headroom over your Jacks, and the straight and flush possibilities that are likely to materialize on the turn and river.

I'll grant you that once he raises so large on the turn, it looks less likely that he flopped a set, but I just wouldn't take the chance against a "crazy" player with JJ here. He may've checked the flop for some bizarre reason with AA or KK, and now fears your drawing possibilities, thus the very big bet. Similarly, if he was trying to re-steal pre-flop with 45s or something, his play makes sense.

I'll just throw out here that there's one alternative that I would occasionally try against a good player in a live game, but would never risk in an online game. It is moving all-in after he makes it 2500. At this point, his hand looks more like AA or a big draw than it does trips or a boat, and a good player who knows he's against a good player will have a very tough $4000 call even with AA (anything less than trips) here. But online, it just seems like there are so many people who virtually never fold an overpair in a spot like that, and of course, you have no body language with which to gauge his comfort level. So I'd be looking to get out, or play as small a pot as possible in your actual situation.

Admittedly, I don't play in the online NL games at those stakes. I suspect the players in your 25/50 are a lot more sophisticated than the ones in mine (not that I mind [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]).

[Ray Zee]

you are just playing the player here. he reraised you in the bb. you raised in the sb. both of you could have anything. right? if not then the one that couldnt is playing badly. if so the other can narrow down opponents hands well.
you have to go with your gut here and guess whether he is messing with you. my guess is not.

[SA125]

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you have to go with your gut here

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The most underrated advice in all of poker. Love to here it from Ray Zee.

[coltrane]

this is how bad players sometimes play AA....then again, I just thought about the large preflop reraise - something could be fishy....