I Feel Like I've Hit a Wall

toss · #1 11-01-2005, 12:18 AM

My vpip at 5/10 over my last 10k hands is 15.5, pfr 11, asb 40, wtsd 30, w$@sd 50. I've tried increasing the hands I'll openraise with (like JTs+, 66+ from MP1 onwards), but it seems to be -EV for me. Perhaps my postflop isn't good enough or open raising too much with the wrong players to act after me.

Should I be satisfied yielding a satisfactory winrate with 15.5 vpip? Or should I concentrate on finding +EV hands to play? I'd hate to move up to 15/30 and have my vpip fall to 13 since people play more aggressively.

Thanks for the help.

Perseus · #2 11-01-2005, 12:51 AM

This is my own experience lately.

Since I've turned "pro" a few months ago my VPIP has fallen from 17.5 to 16 from the levels of 2/4-5/10. However, I've also been staked to play 10/20 - 30/60, and my vpip at those levels is around 19.

There are so much more blind stealing/defending opprotunities at these levels that your VPIP automatically rises a few points.

When I first started playing seriously I found myself trying to raise my vpip just because people on 2+2 told me I should. However, since I've let my VPIP drop to 16 flat I've found my play to be much more solid and my winrate has gone up.

Now, this is just my experience, but my stats right now read 16/10/30.5/51 and I am perfectly happy. Don't worry about stats so much, just try to make the right decisions at the right times and the stats will take care of themselves.

When you move up in limits I think you'll find your VPIP will also go up, so don't worry about that.

Gl,
Jon

#3 11-01-2005, 02:29 AM

I can't even get my vpip over 15 even though I raise 66 and JTs from MP. I never open limp, tbough. Not even from early position. I've been wondering how to increase it.

gh9801 · #4 11-01-2005, 03:26 AM

Are you saying you want to increase your VPIP and PFR? If you have a good winrate now, why change a good thing?

Alex/Mugaaz · #5 11-01-2005, 03:33 AM

I used to win just fine with a VPIP of 22. And somehow it's dropped to 15 without me noticing. I can't believe how tight I've gotten, but I realize most of the extra % I was getting was because I could do stuff like open limp small pairs and Axs profitably before, or overlimp more often with a sc. Game conditions higher up change to the point where this is no longer the reality and you lose these %'s. Also some hands that were 3bets are now folds, like KQo against an UTG raise in the SB. I used to be able to play in spots like this and profit, but that really isn't possible once games get tighter. The way VPIP is increased at higher limits is mostly by open raising lighter in the later and sometimes middle spots. That or just waiting for the looser games which are unfortunately too infrequent to solely play in.

My 2 cents.

toss · #6 11-01-2005, 03:56 AM

My vpip at Party 2/4 is around 20 over a large sample. People there defends their blinds horribly and are much less aggr. PF. At the 5/10 games I've been playng it seems people like to raise and 3-bet PF a lot more. I just think I need to practice some seat selection and loosen my stealing/ restealing standards.

Alex/Mugaaz · #7 11-01-2005, 04:07 AM

P.S. There are different reasons becoming looser increases your WR. WHen you start going up from say 16.5-18.5 those hands you're adding by themselves (in a vacuum) probably add NOTHING to your winrate, they are probably all breakeven if you play well. They add to your WR by giving your opponents tougher decisions on the other real hands you hold. At 5/10 I don't think those hands you add for merely meta reasons are worth it since this isn't quite the level were people will change much based on diff opposition. You gain here by causing them to change too far later which is usually not the types of players in these games (these types are the kind who hate to change). I honestly think a lot of your WR in these games comes from these super tighties who need to showdown their missed overcards and call your turn and river raises.

toss · #8 11-01-2005, 04:11 AM

I don't think that those extra hands in the 16.5 - 18.5 vpip range are breakeven. I think they're just marginally +EV. I think hands start to become breakeven above 20 vpip. This ofcourse if for someone who plays very well postflop. It may just be my postflop game that I need work on.

Piiop · #9 11-01-2005, 04:18 AM

Play 6-max for awhile to experience a different perspective. It may open your eyes to profitable situations that you've been missing at the full tables. This especially helps with playing from the blinds and blind-stealing.

You may be too tight on the button and CO after limpers - many hands become playable in that situation.

[ QUOTE ]
Should I be satisfied yielding a satisfactory winrate with 15.5 vpip?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes

[ QUOTE ]
Or should I concentrate on finding +EV hands to play?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

Don't try to add hands just for the sake of raising your VPIP. Instead, look for +EV situations that you might be missing. Try only playing one or two tables and paying attention every once inawhile. It also may have something to do with the quality of the 5/10 games.

FWIW, I used to be super-tight. You'll get over it.

toss · #10 11-01-2005, 04:27 AM

6-max makes my blood pressure rise to dangerous levels [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]

Thanks for the advice though. I probably haven't been paying as much attention as I could have (I'm 4-tabling without stats right now [img]/images/graemlins/crazy.gif[/img]), and thats probably part of the problem.