An AQo Hand...TPTK...

thirddan · #1 02-22-2005, 07:28 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

UTG+2 is a total calling station, 58/2, call down with any kind of hand...
Button is pretty solid, 21/18, hasn't gotten out of line...

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, UTG+2 calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, Button 3-bets, 2 folds, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (10.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (6.66 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls.

River: (12.66 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG+2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 13.66 BB

What say you? comments on all streets appreciated...

jailhousejoe · #2 02-22-2005, 09:12 AM

I'd usually bet the flop, turn and river.

Was your intention to check/call on the flop in order to get a raise out of the villain on fourth st? If so, then i quite like it, but surely you'd want to 3-bet the turn in that case?

I can understand a check-call on the river, with the 3-straight on the board, but I'd still rather bet and call a raise, than check and call a bet.

I cant see a fold on the river here.

spydog · #3 02-22-2005, 09:13 AM

I would checkraise this flop after UTG+2 calls the Button's flop bet. You really can't protect here because of your position. Plus, you may not have the best hand. Checkraising the flop will also give you more reliable information of Button's holding and prevent UTG+2 from raising in this hand without the goods.. If Button 3-bets, then I just call down. I have the added benefit of being able to see how UTG+2 reacts if a 3rd straight/flush card hits, allowing me to release my hand cheaply if he wakes up.

EDIT: I also don't like leading this turn. You are only going to get raised by a better hand. Yes, you might force UTG+2 out, but it's pointless if you are 2nd best, since you will be drawing very thin. Get your money in on the flop.

James Boston · #4 02-22-2005, 09:38 AM

Why check-call the flop and then lead the turn, but only call the turn raise? If I check-call the flop in this spot, and a blank hits on the turn, I'm going for the check-raise. And if I choose to lead the turn, and am raised, I'm 3-betting.

thirddan · #5 02-22-2005, 09:56 AM

on the flop my plan was the check/call check/call bet, this was if UTG ever folded...standard line being adapted for a 3way pot...

on the turn - oh well, UTG didn't fold but a blank hit, i am probably good here...now i could go for a c/r but i really don't want to miss, cuz i want to get a bet in on this round...i think that there are a lot of hands that button could have to bet the turn with if we were heads up that i beat, but with a third player in the pot he is gonna check behind with more hands that normal (i think) so i just lead out and if he raises maybe he knocks out UTG and thats cool...but now that he raised me im thinking maybe i'm not good here as often...hands that he could have that beat me are AA/KK/QQ/TT, hands that i beat are 99/JJ/AT/AJ/AK, but most of these hands aren't raising me on the turn, he isn't raising me with and underpair so there go 99/JJ, its also unlikely that he would raise me with AT. He would definitely raise TT/QQ/KK/AA and maybe AQ...and if he is beat i don't want him to take a free card cuz thats bad...I thin that 3betting the turn here is reckless...hmm, i forgot to consider KQ, but i think its more likely that he would have coldcalled with KQ rather then 3bet, but im not sure...

River: CRAP...I don't beat anything now, i only beat AJ and AT, splitting with AQ, things aren't looking so good to me, im not sure how often im good here when he plays his hand as he did...

make any sense? totally crazy? comments?

im going to sleep now...

James Boston · #6 02-22-2005, 10:13 AM

[ QUOTE ]
hands that i beat are 99/JJ/AT/AJ/AK, but most of these hands aren't raising me on the turn, he isn't raising me with and underpair so there go 99/JJ, its also unlikely that he would raise me with AT.

[/ QUOTE ]

Even though you raised the flop, so he's got to have some inclination that you have some kind of hand, he doesn't have to put you on TPTK. You only called his pre-flop 3-bet, which would be a legitimate 3-bet with several hands you're ahead of. You also check-called the flop, and blank hit on the turn. My point is, your betting action doesn't require your opponent to put you on a queen, so raising your turn bet after a blank doesn't mean you're behind, and a 3-bet isn't that wreckless.

thirddan · #7 02-22-2005, 07:22 PM

any comments on the river fold?

Roman · #8 02-22-2005, 08:02 PM

you also beat KQ

me454555 · #9 02-22-2005, 08:11 PM

Checkraise the flop, bet the turn. The whole hand plays differently from there. It becomes much easier to put button on a hand if you c/r the flop and see how he reacts.

WillMagic · #10 02-22-2005, 08:45 PM

Ugh...a classic example of how being in the middle sucks.

I'm probably leading at this flop, though right now, I'm having trouble coming up with reasoning that makes it better other than I think it will help define hands a little more, and it could knock UTG+2 out.

The turn is similar...you are just in a really tough spot here, and i don't know the best way out...All I know is that I seriously dislike your river fold. AQ, AJd, and although unlikely, AT are all possiblities here, and this pot is big enough to justify a call imo.

Will