Turn play for 2 TT hands

[Mathieu]

Here are 2 TT hands from last night. I am interested in hearing your thoughts on the turn play. Feel free to comment on the river play as well. Thanks in advance [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

-- bet TT with no outs on 4th street

Reads: All 3 are LP and fairly straightforward. They don't need much of a hand to call a single bet on the flop.

Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB calls.

They all called again! It is now more likely that I am behind I guess.

River: (10 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Final Pot: 12 BB


Here I am thinking I was correct to keep firing on the turn given my opponents'looseness (wide range of hands) and the action on the flop. My hand is also vulnerable and I want to fold overcards.

The river play is more tricky, if I was last to act I might check behind since them calling the turn gives me more reasons to believe I am beat.

I bet because I thought it was sufficiently likely that one of them would call me with a weaker hand. I also thought that the player left to act would be likely to bet a J (or better) but check behind with a "calling" hand.

-- checked TT with outs on 4th street

Reads:

MP1: Only seen him for about 15 hands so far, and he hasn't done anything that caught my attention yet.

MP3: LP, makes ridiculous calls on the flop.



Paradise Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, MP1 checks, MP3 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, SB folds, MP1 calls, MP3 calls.

Here I am not to worried about MP3 calling as he could have anything.

Turn: (6 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
MP1 checks, MP3 checks, Hero checks.

One more over, but this one gives me up to 8 outs. (a T would scare me) I decided to check because, I would have had to call a check raise since I had outs.

River: (6 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, MP3 folds, Hero calls.

My check on the turn showed weakness so I have to call what could be just a busted draw (given 7-1).

Final Pot: 8 BB

I think, checking the turn was probably a mistake, because my opponents are loose, there are only 2 of them, and they could have called with a lot of weak hands on the flop. I failed to protect my hand and collect bets were I was likely to be still ahead. Also, betting the turn would have set up a free showdown in case a blank falls on the river.

I was worried about a check raise for no good reasons since one of my opponents was passive and would have required a strong hand (unlikely) to check raise.

[McGahee]

IMO you played both turns correctly.

Check behind on the river in Hand #1. "One of them" calling with a worse hand isn't good enough. It's unlikely that they are all calling down with flush/straight draws and if they were they're not calling a bet anyway. You're usually up against a weak J here - if somebody checks it fine - saves you a bet.

I don't have a problem with the river call in hand #2, though I don't expect to win.

[Mathieu]

Thanks for the advice about the river plays.

For hand 1 I think I had a HU concept (from TOP) in mind, the one that says that when 1st to act on the river you have to bet if you intend to call. This is because your opponent (especially the LPs) will call with more hands than he will bet with.

I guess if it's 4 handed and 2 opponents have already checked, it's probably better to check behind, and hope that the last one does not bet a better hand.