Preflop 66

[MegumiAmano]

I'm just learning, but I'm really enjoying the process. This hand confused me, but I suspect that it's probably not that hard.

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Ultimate Bet 0.25/0.50 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. CO posts a blind of $0.25.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP3 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero ???

[milesdyson]

you should think more about this.

compare your first call of 2 bets to your second call of 2 bets. the first call could get you to the flop three handed to the flop, and you would have gotten about 2:1 on your call. the second call you are now closing the action getting 6:1.

which one should you concern yourself with? the first one. so fold the first time. the second call is necessary.

edit: there are times where the first coldcall is okay, as in you know there are 2-3 looooose players behind you who you fully expect to come along with you. most often you should fold.

[MegumiAmano]

Thanks for the reply. My thought process (or lack thereof) was like this.

Lee Jones says to fold the first one. SSH says to call it, if the table is loose. The table was pretty loose (preflop anyway). Lots of players would see most flops, and then they seemed to fold easily. So, I made that cold call.

I've been following the advice in SSH that says I should focus more of my study as a newbie on post-flop play. So I just memorized their starting charts and read the text a few times, but haven't really studied the math behind it yet.

The second time, I was thinking that it wouldn't have been raised twice again unless I was up against some really good hands. As you point out, I completely ignored the size of the pot and focused on the fact that my 66 was starting to look pretty weak and that pairs don't like lots of opponents.*

When you say that it's 6-1 and I'm closing action, which is better than 2-1 when it's uncertain, I understand what you mean. I clearly didn't see that at the time, but it makes sense now. However, I don't understand how to calculate that 6-1 is high enough odds with a 66. Am I focusing on the 12% chance that I'll flop another 6? This is 7-1 I think. ( (100-12)/12 : 1) If that's correct, then is it the implied odds plus other long-shot outs that make my 6-1 pot odds worth calling?


(* This is what was going through my head at the time. I'm not saying that it's correct.)

[Quercus]

[ QUOTE ]

If that's correct, then is it the implied odds plus other long-shot outs that make my 6-1 pot odds worth calling?


[/ QUOTE ]

Correct.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]

Lee Jones says to fold the first one. SSH says to call it, if the table is loose.

[/ QUOTE ] What? Where does SSH say to cold call a UTG raise with 66? Fold this like 95% of the time unless you KNOW you will have a 5 way pot or more.

*I see it's on the loose chart. Use the tight one instead.

[MegumiAmano]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Lee Jones says to fold the first one. SSH says to call it, if the table is loose.

[/ QUOTE ] What? Where does SSH say to cold call a UTG raise with 66? Fold this like 95% of the time unless you KNOW you will have a 5 way pot or more.

*I see it's on the loose chart. Use the tight one instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're correct. The table was loose though, so that's why I was using that chart. They do mention in the section on small pairs that you should only cold call these when you're almost certain that it will be a 5-handed pot. At the time, I had completely forgotten about that.

[jrz1972]

To make a coldcall like this (the first one), you need the table to be loose *and* passive. If youre going to get stuck for a lot of bets to see the flop, you should be folding in the first place.

Notice that the second coldcall is automatic, getting 6:1. However, you got a very bad deal overall. I think you ended up getting 3:1 on your decision to play this hand, which is very poor considering how rarely you'll win. (I may have missed a bet someplace, but it looks like you're putting 4 bets into a 12 bet pot).

Fold this next time.

[nomadtla]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Lee Jones says to fold the first one. SSH says to call it, if the table is loose.

[/ QUOTE ] What? Where does SSH say to cold call a UTG raise with 66? Fold this like 95% of the time unless you KNOW you will have a 5 way pot or more.

*I see it's on the loose chart. Use the tight one instead.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're correct. The table was loose though, so that's why I was using that chart. They do mention in the section on small pairs that you should only cold call these when you're almost certain that it will be a 5-handed pot. At the time, I had completely forgotten about that.

[/ QUOTE ]

I play UB .25/.50 as well, and I've rarely seen a table that's loose enough to really make SSH's loose chart profitable. Now from what I've seen in hand post, party has some of those tables. I don't know if UB is better play or just filled with people who have read Phil Helmouths "supertight is right" begining and intermediate chapters on limit hold-em (can mock them since I'm a recovering PH junkie myself). Still on most UB tables I use tight chart. Either way I think a UTG raise deserves respect, esspescially with no reads, even with loose reads I let them have their fun 66 is a much more a limper from here, and sometimes I wouldn't even do that.

[JunkHead]

The preflop charts define YOUR playing style, not the tables. I'm a beginner myself, and during the learning process I've decided to stick with the Tight chart, as it keeps you clear of those harder post-flop decisions.

JunkHead

[gopnik]

Hero calls.