Is this spew? (results posted)

checkmate36 · #1 11-26-2005, 10:51 AM

PokerStars 0.10/0.20 Hold'em (9 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Button is calling station using harv's rules. Very passive player. He doesnt see too many starting cards that he doesn't like.

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
2 folds, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, 2 folds, MP1 calls.

Flop: (7.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button raises, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

I figured he likes his Ace and thinks I have a lower pair. I didn't even consider A3/A4/25/33/44

Turn: (5.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero raises, Button calls.

River: (9.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, Button calls.

Final Pot: 11.75 BB

Results in white below: 
Hero has Ad Qh (one pair, aces).
Button has 4d As (two pair, aces and fours).
Outcome: Button wins 11.75 BB.

Guruman · #2 11-26-2005, 11:00 AM

--haven't looked at results--
I threebet that flop and lead the turn, calling down if raised.

given that you just called, checkraising the turn is totally inconsistent. Either bet/fold that turn or just call down.

checkmate36 · #3 11-26-2005, 11:18 AM

Thanks

bozlax · #4 11-26-2005, 12:46 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Button is calling station using harv's rules. Very passive player. He doesnt see too many starting cards that he doesn't like.

...

I didn't even consider A3/A4/25/33/44

[/ QUOTE ]

I haven't looked at the results, but I easily found your error. VERY PASSIVE PLAYER decides to raise you on the flop...has he raised anyone on the flop, before, that you've seen? Given the sudden aggression, and the fact that he plays any two, how can you possibly not consider any holding?

#5 11-26-2005, 12:49 PM

While some passive players will still raise with an ace here, in general I go into call down mode. If you have a read that he will raise with just an ace here, you need to 3 bet and lead the turn.

David04 · #6 11-26-2005, 12:52 PM

Against an unkown, I'd 3-bet the flop. Check/call down if capped, lead the turn if Villain calls the 3-bet.

Since you have a read telling you that he is a pssive player, why do you ignore this read? Passive players don't raise the flop. Passive players don't bet the turn when checked to. If you are going to make an effort to get reads(or even get his stats from PT) then use the reads or stats. Don't ignore knowledge you have.

checkmate36 · #7 11-26-2005, 01:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Since you have a read telling you that he is a pssive player, why do you ignore this read? Passive players don't raise the flop. Passive players don't bet the turn when checked to. If you are going to make an effort to get reads(or even get his stats from PT) then use the reads or stats. Don't ignore knowledge you have.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is one of the areas that is tripping me up and holding me back from playing as well as I could be. I will have to concentrate on using the info while at the table during play. Thanks for the help.

nomadtla · #8 11-26-2005, 02:19 PM

*grunch*
w/out looking at results

[ QUOTE ]
Very passive player.

[/ QUOTE ]

The fact that he plays a lot of starting hands combined with this read, if it's accurate, makes me want to fold to the turn bet. If I'm feeling saucy and want to show this down I want to get their cheaply and give him the chance to continue his bluff rather than scare him off with a c/r.
So if you do want to see it down c/c turn, c/c river. To answer the question in your subject the C/R is a leak in my opinion and is rarely called by something we beat. If we are ahead villan folds to that C/R and we lose the bluff he may have tried on the river. If we are behind villan calls the C/R and the river bet and we lose one more then we would have just calling down.

#9 11-26-2005, 02:22 PM

Grunch (results not viewed):

If he's a true calling station, then I am calling down after he raises the flop.

#10 11-26-2005, 03:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
If he's a true calling station, then I am calling down after he raises the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

With a flop like this and a calling station raising the flop, I'd call down too.