finally got one just right?

[andyfox]

Except that the opponent kind of expects you to look at him when you've bet dark. You don't have to worry about being surreptitious for fear he sees you looking at him. And they usually don't bother looking at you when you've bet dark.

[MMMMMM]

^

[Nemesis]

I need to work on my reading comprehension.

[mike l.]

"except for the his-ass part."

im starting to think this might be one of those things that works really well for me, but not at all for you.

[mike l.]

"except for the I-can-out-cocky-his-cocky-ass crap."

when im in this frame of mind i play better. period. when i take it personally it may hurt more but it helps me make better decisions. i lay down correctly more. that's my biggest leak, calling too much when it's obvious im beat. so when i really resent paying people off i do it much less. it also means feeling cocky enough to leave games when ive decided i dont have the sort of edge i want. does that make sense? it sure does to me.

what works well for me may seriously hurt others. for me frame of mind is everything, it's just a very different frame of mind than what you and tommy aim for and achieve. the zen thing dont work for me. ive zenned myself out of all sorts of chips sitting there feeling very peaceful as i got outplayed, outdrawn, and felt nothing, felt no emergency switch flip. that emergency switch does not have to mean tilt, it can just mean adjusting. the way i naturally play looks like tilt anyway so i dont need to ever actually tilt.

ive been listening to you and more so tommy tell me how to do it for so long and been trying to emulate and you know what? it's not working for me. when im in my own gear and my own comfort zone (which is to make others uncomfortable, and im just talking about the game and loose postflop raises and bread and butter laydowns and stuff here, not body odor or cussing or sociopathic commerce type stuff) i play my best and my results are the strongest. when i play in some sort of mode where im trying to practice some sort of funky tommyesque restraint (and again it's way overemphasized in his writing, the guy sprays chips if our vegas sessions meant anything) it feels unnatural and i dont do as well. of course saying this means i cant complain to him next time i go bust. but i feel the getting to this point is super crucial.

[mike l.]

" personally don't like it when a strong player bets in the dark, it signifies a lot of strength"

see but your smart. and this guy did not see me as a strong player. he saw me as a tilted kid who couldnt play. id been raising every fourth hand or whatever per my normal routine. so he mistook my blind betting as a challenge to him to outplay me. that's why made the bad call on the flop and the value bet on the river. and paid me off.

[andyfox]

Yeah, I gotcha. What might work for me or for Tommy or for anybody doesn't necessarily have to be right for you. I just think it makes logical sense that an objective attitude, cooly analyzing a situation, rather than reacting emotionally, would yield better results. Then again, for you, being rough and tumble in one sense may activate your other senses and make your antennae more in tune with the game.

It's hard for me to believe that not making lay downs properly is your biggest leak. I could see this being the case if you were a big bet poker player, especially in no-limit, but not in limit for a player of your caliber. But it's interesting, comparing this with what I think is most other players' problem. For most players, I think, it's cockiness that makes them call too many hands and stay in a game when they shouldn't. I don't doubt for a minute that it works in an opposite manner for you.

Regards,
Andy

[Steve Giufre]

I'll leave out my own boring thoughts since its already been discussed plenty, but I love the play.

[Louie Landale]

This looks like a good spot to routinely call figuring to auto check-raise the flop. Instead of putting you on a big pair or AK he'll put you on a pair of flopped 6s, and that just HAS to be a good thing. Notice in this case he'll raise the turn when he makes top pair, letting you 3-bet him.

Don't know about betting dark, unless you know that it will manipulate THIS opponent in some specific manner that is beneficial to you. I don't believe I've EVER done it, although I have often auto-bet after the flop but without looking (since I was studing the opponent as the flop came down).

Check-raise good on the end for the reasons you didn't say: he'll bet the hand you figure he'll call with.

- Louie

[mike l.]

"It's hard for me to believe that not making lay downs properly is your biggest leak."

dont make me embarass myself on here anymore than i already do. just trust me on this one: i call way way way way way way way too much. it's symptomatic of trying to play in such a way that no one ever believes i have a hand; i never believe anyone else ever does either.

always love your thoughts and your great understanding andy.