Consequences of decreasing aggression

Bodhi · #1 08-18-2005, 01:34 PM

This isn't a stats post, but I will mention a few numbers for reference. For a long time my postflop aggression has been around 3.5, and for the last 6000 hands (since I got back from vacation) it's been around 2.5. I haven't been playing more 'passively' in order to change my aggression factor, that would be dumb. What I have done is to look for more opportunities to snap off bluffs, and I have learned that given ample opportunity, the fish, donks, and even the rocks are capable of bluffs that I wouldn't try. These bluffs were not revealed to me previously because my aggression discouraged them, whereas proper strategy against players who bluff too much is to encourage them to bluff more. It requires me to call in heads-up pots where I would normally be betting or raising in an effort to make the opponent fold, and previously they did fold because they had nothing. Make no mistake, these are specific situations that have nothing to do with bad flop calls in multiway pots that are raise or fold decisions, my aggressive tendencies are still there when I need them. Here are some example hands:

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Villain is a fish who is around 45%, 0, .8

Preflop: Hero is Button with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 3 folds, Hero raises, 2 folds, UTG calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

I would normally raise this flop.

Turn: (3.75 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero raises, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB

Villain has: K7o, wtf???

Party Poker 1/2 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Villain seemed fairly tight, though I hadn't seen many hands at the time.

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $1.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, 6 folds, Hero calls.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Normally I hate this kind of passive play. Previously I would checkraise.

Turn: (3.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

River: (5.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Villain has: AQo, nice try. If I had taken a WA/WB line here I'm pretty sure the villain would have folded the river.

davelin · #2 08-18-2005, 01:37 PM

It's very good that you're looking at opportunities to decrease aggression in order to maximize profit. I don't think Hand 2 falls into this category.

Greg J · #3 08-18-2005, 01:49 PM

I have been meaning to write an essay post on a related subject regarding how the general encouragement of aggression on this board leads us to be over agressive oftentimes and costs us money. The thought sunk in during my latest reading of ToP, and came out in an spirted discussion I had with Baronzeus over a bet/call line versus a check/call line on the river. I might start composing that post soon. This is related to the same idea as you are presenting.

Still, I raise the flop in hand one, esp on a two flushed board. On rainbow flop I don't mind a call on the flop if you raise the turn. I don't really like how you played hand one, but I want to make clear this does not mean I reject the substantive premise of your post.

Hand 2 looks good to me.

Absolution · #4 08-18-2005, 01:54 PM

You're afraid of a 2 flush board when it's heads up?

Bodhi · #5 08-18-2005, 02:01 PM

Not afraid, he's just suggesting that villain may have a 4 flush and would call the raise and more bets.

LowDown22 · #6 08-18-2005, 02:09 PM

In hand 1, I don't mind being passive, but I would've raised the turn. If he is on a draw I would like to make him pay extra right here, instead of letting him see if he catches before throwing in the extra bet on the river. Although you're line worked perfect against this guy.

In hand 2, I do not like the line. 77 versus likely overcards on a 345 board. You are not way ahead/way behind. You are way behind with 6 outs(the gutshot+7s), or slightly ahead giving him 6 overcards plus the 4 2s for the straight(10 outs), not to mention if he has clubs in his hand. I play this one fast.

Fantam · #7 08-18-2005, 03:00 PM

I like the suggestion which you are making, and have sometimes used the check/call line to encourage loose bets from opponents also.

I think as some of the posters have pointed out, that you need to balance this approach, with being careful not to be too passive when you probably have the best hand but your opponent is likely to have a lot of outs to beat you.

Also I think that it should be fairly obvious that you might take this approach to try to maximise bets from an opponent when you are heads up, as opposed to being in a multiway pot when you might need to bet/raise to protect your hand.

grjr · #8 08-18-2005, 03:01 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I have been meaning to write an essay post on a related subject regarding how the general encouragement of aggression on this board leads us to be over agressive oftentimes and costs us money. The thought sunk in during my latest reading of ToP, and came out in an spirted discussion I had with Baronzeus over a bet/call line versus a check/call line on the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

If anyone wants to lower their testosterone level a little bit then read Middle Limit Holdem Poker by Bob Ciaffone. It will really mellow out your game if you sit down and really think about the example hands.

Greg J · #9 08-18-2005, 03:05 PM

We drink Kool Aid, not Sunny D. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

deception5 · #10 08-18-2005, 03:27 PM

Hand 1: I would raise the turn if the A hadn't come. Since it did I like the way you played it.

Hand 2: I like this. If you had 88 I'd raise the turn.