Making adjustments

[Clownfish]

For about the last 9 months, I have been playing about 12,000 hands/month. Until about 3 months ago, I was about 2.9/100 at .5/1. I made a few excursions into 1/2 and 2/4 and seemed to find the same trend. My VPIP dips a few percent but all other numbers look fine except bb/100. bb/100 drops between even and slightly negative. I pretty much figured that a lot of the problem has been in table selection. I found myself sitting at a lot of 18/8 tables instead of 25/4. At these tables, I seem to win lots of small pots and lose the larger pots. This made me decide to go back to my comfort zone and bonus whore for a while to regain confidence. Well, now that Party has split off the skins (and playing Crypto and Prima), I'm finding myself at the same 18/8 tables full of rocks and TAGs even at .5/1. That has lead me to thinking about learning to beat these games instead of avoiding them.

What types of adjustments do you need to make to be successful at these 18/8 tables? Do you raise more preflop hoping to just take down blinds? Do you play a lot less hands preflop (My tendency is to want to be too tight so I really don't want to go down this road)? Do you adjust the types of hands that you are willing to raise with for example, raise more with pairs and less with hands like k10s? If you decide to raise more preflop, how do you handle callers when you miss the flop completely?

[milesdyson]

move to another site.

[jaxUp]

If the players are that tight (table stats 18/8) then you need to steamroll them. Blind steal all day, be a bit wary of the good players, and basically raise the shitt out of them (backing off when reasonable). Seriously though, either switch sites or get better table selection. I play 5/10 with tables that are always better (much better) than that. If you're just bonus whorring, there are better sites to whore (at least in terms of game selection).

[ QUOTE ]
Well, now that Party has split off the skins (and playing Crypto and Prima), I'm finding myself at the same 18/8 tables full of rocks and TAGs even at .5/1. That has lead me to thinking about learning to beat these games instead of avoiding them.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming you're talking about full ring... Is Prima really that TAGish? RVP was the site that burst my online poker cherry, and I played some .5/1.0 there a few months ago before moving.

Maybe things have changed since late June when I left, but they seemed to be somewhat tighter but not like a complete rock garden. I mean 6 people wouldn't limp to see the flop or anything, but almost everyone played horribly after the flop so it didn't really matter.

Yeah, the $1/2 ring was a rock garden that I basically steamrolled for a couple of sessions before I got tired of it. I never really understood why it was so weak-tight at that level. Those weak-tighties don't know what to do when a pre-flop TAG and post-flop LAG is at the table. Good times.

That's where I noticed the difference.

[Clownfish]

Ok, if you are increasing your stealing, how far do you go with it? Obviously it is player dependant but, are you basically raising every time you are first into a pot? Raising when first in from at least MP? What are your general rules for increasing the amount of stealing?

PS: Obviously you can always run and hide but, I would rather learn how to beat the game.

[jaxUp]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, if you are increasing your stealing, how far do you go with it? Obviously it is player dependant but, are you basically raising every time you are first into a pot? Raising when first in from at least MP? What are your general rules for increasing the amount of stealing?

PS: Obviously you can always run and hide but, I would rather learn how to beat the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

It really depends but with very tight opponents, but basically I'll raise any connectors 78+, 1-gaps T8+, 2-gaps Q9+, any 2 paint, 44+, any A, any suited K, Q7s+, suited connectors 76+, and some bullshit hands (35s eg) if the players are ridiculous. All these I definitely open-raise from LP, probably LMP. If you're playing 6max, I do it from HJ+ (discounting maybe some of the worse hands from HJ)

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, if you are increasing your stealing, how far do you go with it? Obviously it is player dependant but, are you basically raising every time you are first into a pot? Raising when first in from at least MP? What are your general rules for increasing the amount of stealing?

PS: Obviously you can always run and hide but, I would rather learn how to beat the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I tend to open-raise in tighter games. I might occasionally limp to mix things up in EP w/ AA/KK intending to reraise. But my EP standards obviously tighten up so I don't do that sort of thing often as it's not optimal strategy to do a regular basis. It's just usually not worth playing A4s, KTs, etc. UTG if there's a great chance that opponents will raise with big cards behind you. Obviously, you want to open-raise in LP with these types of hands to take the blinds.

Being selectively aggressive is the key. Some players will just call you down thinking you're full of [censored], others back down if you have position on them. You've got to realize that there are many favorable boards that helped neither you nor your opponents. If people show no interest, that pot is just waiting for you to take it (assuming no one is on a draw). You have to study what your opponents limits are.

It should be noted that there's a specific type of tight player that you shouldn't bother bluffing into all the way. This is the type of player that has waited so long to play a hand that he'll never throw it away. The only situation he'll throw his hand away is on the river UI. This player is essentially a tight calling station and definitely someone worthy of having in your game.

For some reason, and unbeknownst to me, I was really interested it the bluffing aspect of the game. When I first started playing, I focused on things that interested me the most. I'd experiment with odd BB plays that I still use occasionally.

I've just started to play 6-max, and full ring is a real drag to play for me now. Playing a weak-tight table, while interesting in June, is boring and not very profitable. Yeah, you can beat those tables. It's definitely worth learning since the tables become less loose and more tight as you move up in limits. It's especially important to learn if you ever find yourself at a table w/ retired people in Reno. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

CrayZee

P.S.: I know you want to beat these weak-tight games, but it's more worthwhile to find looser games. Once you got the hang of it, move on. You've got to ask yourself whether or not you are just learning something new or simply satisfying your ego.

[Guruman]

go to the crypto and prima 2/4 6max games if you're rolled. vpips in the 80s, and some flat out nuttiness all the time there.

Be careful though. Going from the tight 1/2 full to the crazy 2/4 6 (at the same site) caused a massive downswing in my play, but once I readjust I'll be fine. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, if you are increasing your stealing, how far do you go with it? Obviously it is player dependant but, are you basically raising every time you are first into a pot? Raising when first in from at least MP? What are your general rules for increasing the amount of stealing?

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It depends.

Things to consider: How tight are the players between you and the button? How tight are the blinds? How good are you postflop relative to them? Playing by chart in these sorts of games is an excellent way to win less money than you can (and should).

[68Mustang]

What does this mean exactly?

" I found myself sitting at a lot of 18/8 tables instead of 25/4."