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  #1  
Old 04-27-2005, 01:24 AM
domino domino is offline
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Default a \"monster\" hand

I am interested in all and any comments re this hand. I am in a 10/20 O8 at PP. Usual game,fairly tight but very aggressive. Maybe one or two players playing marginal hands frequently. I am in the small blind with Ah 2c 3d 9d. The ep2 raises,mp2 makes it 3 bets,all fold to me. The big blind is rather tight so I expect he will not play for 3 or 4 bets. What do you do with this hand now? I don't have much of a read on the two players. Ep2 seems loose aggressive to me and mp2 seems pretty solid. I will discuss my thought process with this hand after I get some feedback. I think there are quite a few things to think about with this hand before you act. Thanks
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  #2  
Old 04-27-2005, 09:06 AM
Ironman Ironman is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

Domino,

At this point I would just call. With a great low hand, I would want to at least try and keep the BB in for another bet.

Then I would hope for a bunch of diamonds and either an Ace or duece to counterfit their low.

I love to keep people in when I have this good of a hand.

Good luck,
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  #3  
Old 04-27-2005, 09:51 AM
HopeydaFish HopeydaFish is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I agree. Just call. It's too bad the A wasn't suited -- the fact that it's not suited means that you're probably most likely only playing for low (with a small chance at high). You want to keep your opponents in the pot so that it's worth playing for low (and hope that you aren't quartered).
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  #4  
Old 04-27-2005, 10:22 AM
CCx CCx is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I fold.

You're out of position and this is a pretty blah starting hand - unless you like playing blah hands in bad position. If you cap, the BB may fold as you said, but you're not getting anyone else to fold, you're just putting 40 bucks into the pot with a very mediocre holding. You've got almost no shot at the high pot with a 9-high flush and wheel draw (some or all of which is almost assuredly held in one of the others' hands). So you're going to pay an extra 2.5 or 3.5 bets (if you cap) to try and draw to half the pot with your nut low which has a good chance of getting quartered anyway? Pick a better spot and fold this hand, unless you're one of the "one or two players playing marginal hands frequently" that you mention.
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  #5  
Old 04-27-2005, 10:37 AM
Cleveland Guy Cleveland Guy is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

This hand is hardly a monster.

Your A2 - is almost always going to be shared with at least 1 of the other players here - so you are really hoping for a flop of

A 9 7 - or something like that, which would give you top 2 and the nut low draw. It would also counterfit other low draws - but that is the type of flop I want to see cheaply, not for 4 bets pre-flop.

I know A23x - looks like a great starting hand, but it's only for half the pot, and you want many people in this type of pot, not just 2 or 3.
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  #6  
Old 04-27-2005, 11:23 AM
GeoffM GeoffM is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I agree with the other 2 previous posts. I get away from this hand ASAP. You are only drawing for the low most likely, and the 3 bet reeks of an A2 hand as well. Your ace isn't suited which devalues the hand a lot.
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  #7  
Old 04-27-2005, 12:38 PM
soundgarden4 soundgarden4 is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I'm really on the fence about whether this is a call or a fold, because of the 9. If the 9 was any other card besides 7 or 8, I think I would call.

If EP2 is truly a LAG, he could be raising with any hand, not necessarily one with A2. Could be A34x or A35xss or perhaps a high hand. I wouldn't necessarily put him on A2.

When MP2 raises, I'm more likely to put him on AAxx, where xx is probably a wheel card and some other random card. Isolating the LAG with AA(wheel)x is a play thatI would expect a solid player to make.

If MP2 really does have AAxx, then you're really only playing for half the pot. But if your 9 was a wheel card you can hit a nice straight for a scoop on MP2.

If I think EP2 will pay off with some kind of crappy high/low combination, I just might take a flop with this hand.
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  #8  
Old 04-27-2005, 12:57 PM
HopeydaFish HopeydaFish is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

Yeah, in retrospect I think you should fold. I'm used to playing PL whereas the OP was playing Limit. In the game you described, if you hit the nut low, you won't be able to try to bully your opponents out of the pot with a large bet. You need to have a better shot at high in limit. The 9 hurts your chances at high. If the ace was suited, or the 9 was a suited face card, then you could consider calling.
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  #9  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:04 PM
JoshuaMayes JoshuaMayes is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I would just call, and hope that the BB would come along for a nice four-handed pot. I also want to be sure that EP doesn't fold. Even though EP is loose, he may toss away his hand for two more bets if he was just fooling around with his raise.

If MP2 is solid, he may very well be trying to isolate EP to get headsup against a loose-aggressive player. So his hand does not necessarily need to be as strong as his typical 3-bet hand would be. Obviously the big worry with MP2 is duplication. MP2 could easily have something like A4KK, however, so I would not be worried enough to toss my hand.

I disagree with the posters recommending that you fold this hand. Any A23 is one of the best possible starting hands in O8. Although I would ideally like more than two other players in the hand, it still rates to be profitable against 2 players, especially if one is loose-aggressive.

You are not, as has been described, "only playing for low" if you take a flop with this hand. What hand could the raisers have against which you would have no shot at the high half of the pot? Very rarely would you be a big dog for the high half of the pot. In addition to the obvious potential to make a small straight, against two other players, your nine-high flush will often be good if it comes home. You will also make random two-pairs, trips, and full houses from time to time. Furthermore, if a low comes on the board and you make anything for high, you will often be able to raise out a stronger high-only hand gaining three-quarters of the pot against another nut low.

The only catastrophe for you would be if both the BB and EP fold and you end up heads-up and out of position against the solid MP. I don't think that this will happen often enough to justify folding here, however.
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  #10  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:11 PM
CCx CCx is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

[ QUOTE ]
You will also make random two-pairs, trips, and full houses from time to time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes! Why not play every hand, then?

This hand is not a hand to play for 3-bets out of position. If the goal of O8 was "Play to try and get your money back or lose half of it", then I could see why this hand should be played. As others have said, if the ace was suited then that changes the landscape of the hand. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that the OP won the hand in question, but if that is the case it wouldnt be because making the choice to play this hand is the correct decision.
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