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  #1  
Old 04-06-2005, 05:30 AM
spentrent spentrent is offline
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Default $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (10 handed) converter

MP2 (t540)
MP3 (t785)
CO (t1035)
Button (t285)
SB (t770)
BB (t1140)
UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t670)
Hero (t800)
MP1 (t1175)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t60</font>, MP1 calls t60, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, BB calls t45.

Flop: K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, Hero bets 125, MP1 raises all-in, Hero calls.


It was the 4th hand of the tournament. I'm pondering the idea of making these loose calls on Level 1 -- but not 2 or 3 with a lot of players still in -- to take advantage of the early game fish factor.

By making this play am I just effectively being a fish and swimming Logic River upstream right there with them? Or have I been losing money by folding in this situation on Level 1?

I think that the buy-in price is the biggest factor but I could just be on crack and in dire need of intervention and Jebus.
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2005, 05:52 AM
raptor517 raptor517 is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

go through all of the possible hands villian could be pushing with here. in a 22, isnt KJ just as likely as 22? you fold this hand you have 615 chips left, which is fine, but by no means healthy. villian could also easily be pushing a flush draw. my instinct is to get my chips in here. im guessing u lost the hand, which is the reason u posted this, but i would generally get my chips in here, especially at a 22. holla
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2005, 06:05 AM
spentrent spentrent is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

[ QUOTE ]
go through all of the possible hands villian could be pushing with here. in a 22, isnt KJ just as likely as 22? you fold this hand you have 615 chips left, which is fine, but by no means healthy. villian could also easily be pushing a flush draw. my instinct is to get my chips in here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think I've been operating under the assumption that those 615 chips are stronger than they actually may be. I think to myself "villain could be pushing crap but I can still finish ITM if I dump this."

[ QUOTE ]
im guessing u lost the hand, which is the reason u posted this, but i would generally get my chips in here, especially at a 22. holla

[/ QUOTE ]

Strangely enough, I posted this because I won the hand and thought my play was marginal. Didn't feel a need to post the results.

Villian had K6 BTW. It was sooted... but in a dazzling green and not the black it wanted to be. So there's another datum in favor of calling. [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2005, 06:08 AM
johnnybeef johnnybeef is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

in the last week i have been coming over the top of people and calling pushes with ak (previously i would prolly fold to a push, and merely call a raise). im absolutely amazed at how profitable it has been.
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2005, 06:09 AM
SNOWBALL138 SNOWBALL138 is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

I would call, but only b/c of the 2 flush. There are nine combinations of suited aces, 8 combinations of KQ, and 8 combinations of KJ. There are only seven total combinations of sets. There are a lot of 2 pair combos possible, but no sane person would hold any on a board like this.

There is a second reason to call b/c of the 2 flush. If he smooth calls with a set and another spade comes off, it will be harder for him to get paid off. So pushing with a set in this spot is somewhat sensible (partly b/c it looks like a bluff)
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  #6  
Old 04-06-2005, 06:11 AM
yanicehand yanicehand is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

i think in this situation, at least in my experience with the 20s, you are ahead way more than you are behind. lately ive just been baffled by some of the atrocious play that takes place at the 20s, and this seems like one of those times to take advantage.

matt

btw, enjoyed talking to u at like 3 of my tables last night... but i wish you wouldnt play during my shifts, lol.
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  #7  
Old 04-06-2005, 06:29 AM
spentrent spentrent is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

[ QUOTE ]
i think in this situation, at least in my experience with the 20s, you are ahead way more than you are behind. lately ive just been baffled by some of the atrocious play that takes place at the 20s, and this seems like one of those times to take advantage.

[/ QUOTE ]

So I AM missing the party aren't I? The experiment will continue.

[ QUOTE ]
btw, enjoyed talking to u at like 3 of my tables last night... but i wish you wouldnt play during my shifts, lol.

[/ QUOTE ]

Fun stuff. From how I played at your tables, you should be rejoicing when you see me sit down. Didn't I suck out on you on a busted steal with 64o or something like that, after doing the same 10 hands earlier with J6o to someone else? [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]

A friend of mine sez, "You can have balls or you can have cards, but cards always beat balls." Then he raises T3o UTG in our small-stakes NL cash game...
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  #8  
Old 04-06-2005, 07:41 AM
kyro kyro is offline
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Location: Rochester, NH
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

Most people wouldn't push here with a set. I can't see them playing K8, K2 or 82. What I do see is a flushdraw. Good call IMO.
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  #9  
Old 04-06-2005, 09:41 AM
lutefisk lutefisk is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

Looks like a great call to me. From time to time you'll be beat, but as you mention, at the $20 level, I'm almost certain it's a profitable call in the long run. Lots of people will play kings early, especially for 60 chips.
I'm a fan of raising more pf at these early levels to avoid strange and difficult decisions, and really punish those who call anything. I myself am often surprised at the amount of times I win hands with TPTK. So, I've come to call more often, sometimes with clenched teeth, and sometimes you get owned, but overall it seems to be the right thing to do.
Anyone care to elaborate on if this would be a bad call at the $100 or $200 level?
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  #10  
Old 04-06-2005, 11:07 AM
TheCat TheCat is offline
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Default Re: $20+2: A call I normally avoid (TPTK)

It's difficult to get away from your AK TPTK here but you should, being called with a holding K8, K2 or 82 is likely in a 20$ game. I would have rasied to 100 preflop to knock out this sort of hand. Also with a flush draw on the table a set might well push. Unless he is a maniac the raise tells you he has something he thinks is better than top pair.
You could very well be folding to a draw or worse here but at least you have enough chips left to wait for another oppertunity. A month ago I would have called this but I have learned you have to get away from pots you think you own sometimes.
I guess he had 88.
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