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Old 12-29-2005, 11:12 PM
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Default Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

I was just re-reading a section in Mark Blades "Professional Poker" book where he says that many "professional" no limit players have an expectation to earn 5 times the buy-in of whatever tournaments they play in (average over time), but that a single table satellite player can only earn 10-50% ROI due to the "luck" factor.

I always assumed that the long term ROI of MTT and single table SNG's would be the same, but after thinking about what he said it makes a lot of sense. For example, I know people who might be able to get "lucky" and win a 1 table tournament, but no way could they ever take down a 300 person tournament or a 700 person tournament or whatever....they are just too bad of a player and will eventually donk off their stack before winning the whole thing.

Anyway, my question is do you agree that MTT's are essentially more profitable and/or have a higher long term ROI factor than 1 table tournaments?? I'm pretty sure I'm interpreting what he's saying in this part of the book correctly (it's on page 82-83 if any of you own it and want to see what I'm talking about).....and I just wanted to see if any of you out there find this to be true as well???
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Old 12-30-2005, 02:48 AM
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

Sorry no one has anwsered yet, let me give you this link to a similar question that I asked today.

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showth...e=0#Post4308357
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  #3  
Old 12-30-2005, 03:24 AM
nath nath is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

I've found MTTs to be extremely profitable. However, you have to understand that there is quite a bit of variance in them, you have to get very lucky to win one, and you can go quite a while between good wins. For that reason many people like STTs or cash games as a hedge. I haven't had to do that yet, but I've also been judicious with my winnings and have run pretty well the last 4 1/2 months.
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Old 12-30-2005, 07:38 AM
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

Great.....thanks!!!
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Old 12-30-2005, 12:38 PM
illegit illegit is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

If you have a significant sample size of SNGs played and MTTs played I think you'd see that this is unquestionably true.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:14 PM
Chipp Leider Chipp Leider is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

Do you guys actually believe that "many" pros are pulling in 5*buy-in?
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:38 PM
burningyen burningyen is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

[ QUOTE ]
Do you guys actually believe that "many" pros are pulling in 5*buy-in?

[/ QUOTE ]
Not in the long run. But I also suspect that no one has played enough MTTs at any given level to have a significant sample size.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:58 PM
Jack Fate Jack Fate is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

[ QUOTE ]
but that a single table satellite player can only earn 10-50% ROI due to the "luck" factor.


[/ QUOTE ]

more like 10-20%. And not due to the luck factor. It's due to there's only 10 players. So, 10-20% ROI is not bad at all.

I'm not familiar with the book you quote, but it sounds like he's talking about live play; so it's a bit outdated since multi-tabling would not be possible. Anyway, the more important number is $/hr. not ROI for most people.

I'm no expert on MTTs, but 500% seems high to me as well.
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Old 12-30-2005, 03:59 PM
A_PLUS A_PLUS is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

ROI which is another way of saying "What % of my tournament entry to I expect to win over time"

ROI from a MTT would need to be at least 5-6 x as large as ROI for a SNG to make the two equal, they make at least 5-6 times as long. ROI measures how well you are doing at a particular type of tournament. But if you want to compare across types, you need to look at $/hr. I would play a game with .01% ROI, if it could be played once per second.

2nd, you have to see why ROI would be higher for the best MTT player vs the best STT player (even if they took the same amount of time). A STT player would need to win 100% of the time, to have a 500% ROI, a MTT player could, in theory achieve a few hundred times that.

If you want to compare the two forms, make sure you use stats that actually compare them
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  #10  
Old 12-30-2005, 08:36 PM
nath nath is offline
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Default Re: Question about MTT ROI versus 1 table ROI (Mark Blade)

Here's a question: how many tournaments played is considered a staistically significant sample size?
Since I became a winning player, I've been pulling a great ROI (I don't have stats before then), but I still don't know how much of it is just being on the good side of variance. (I'm getting close to 200 MTTs if my numbers are correct.)
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