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  #11  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:28 PM
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Default Re: On Holidays, Family, and Church

I am a strong atheist.

I have no problem going for the spectacle, if it would make someone happy beyond belief. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Having said that, I would tell whoever invited me that I am happy to sit, happy to stand, not willing to go on my kness and do the gestures of prayer usually demanded. I'll sit when they kneel, I will not join my hand in prayer, I will not kneel and I will not bow my head. It seems like a fair compromise to me, and not compromising my stand against religion. The last time I went to a catholic church, I did just that. It was at a funeral.

Have a jolly good one. [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
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  #12  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:35 PM
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Default Wanna have a catch, Dad?

[ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying that I would hope any son I raise will look at other options and decide for himself what's best.

[/ QUOTE ]

And my question was, that upon your son's assessment of his options in life, and one option (yours) being favored, perhaps heavily, per his admiration of you, to what extent does this demonstrate a lesser level of thinking?

And I don't think it is debatable that a father's desire for a son's emulation on at least several levels does in fact exist (even if you don't feel as though that is in your future) hence the feeling of failure I suppose I would feel upon my son's rejection of my beliefs.

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  #13  
Old 12-24-2005, 11:40 PM
New001 New001 is offline
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Default Re: Wanna have a catch, Dad?

Do you not see a difference between "Following the same religion as your father because he's your father" and "Choosing the same religion as your father because it makes more sense to you than your other options?" The latter I support entirely, the former seems lazy.

My original statement was intended to be 100% about religion, even if it does apply in other situations.
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  #14  
Old 12-25-2005, 12:02 AM
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Default Re: Wanna have a catch, Dad?

You seem to believe that choosing your own religion is a set point in one's life, as though it happens when you turn 18. It happens only upon a rejection of your father/mother's religion first (assuming there was one). This generally elicits disappoinment on the parent's end.

The process of rejection was just that - a thought process. But this does not imply a superior level of thinking to the individual whose thoughts were dedicated elsewhere (perhaps within the religion itself) and not to the assessment and subsequent rejection of the ideals of the parents which he admires so much. This applies entirely to ideals and principles, as there is no intellectual gain (or loss) from rejecting buddhism and taking up judaism.

This false sense of superior thinking is what I believe leads many to gleefully declare their atheism, as if the rejection of their primitive parents' religion were some sort of victory (suggesting an advanced sort of authority complex). You can witness this snug superiority repeatedly, again and again, right here on this forum.
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  #15  
Old 12-25-2005, 12:24 AM
imported_luckyme imported_luckyme is offline
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Default Re: Wanna have a catch, Dad?

[ QUOTE ]
And my question was, that upon your son's assessment of his options in life, and one option (yours) being favored, perhaps heavily, per his admiration of you, to what extent does this demonstrate a lesser level of thinking?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be mightily disappointed as a father if a grown child of mine allowed any decision to be weighed with "his admiration of me". I want to raise independant thinking adults, not father worshippers/pleasers. I hope I have set an example of being honest, trustworthy, reasonable, fair, etc ( not without slippage ) and those attributes are attributes they have, and when choices arise I hope those attributes lead to good ones. Tossing in "admiration for dad" should have moved way,way out of the picture by the time he's an adult or I will have failed.

On the OP's initial question - being upfront is the main issue. I conducted an atheist funeral a couple years ago for a mostly religious audience, including the childs pastor. The pastor was one of the first, of many, to come up and comment on how well it went. In the situation the OP is in, it may not work as well because the 'upfront' will only be with his family and not the congregation, some of who may be uncomfortable with a atheistic approach to the service. I'd bow out to avoid making what should be a pleasant experience a bit less so for others. If the family doesn't understand, this will be the least of your troubles.

luckyme
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  #16  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:17 AM
KaneKungFu123 KaneKungFu123 is offline
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Default Re: Wanna have a catch, Dad?

riddick,

you must have some dumb kids.
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  #17  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:51 AM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: On Holidays, Family, and Church

You're kidding yourself if you don't think that many people attend church services and other religious functions mainly for the social aspect.

I see nothing wrong with attending mass with your family. After all, did you really travel to California to celebrate the birth of Christ with your family?
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  #18  
Old 12-25-2005, 02:59 AM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: On Holidays, Family, and Church

Well I'm an athiest and my ex sends my kids to religious school and I don't mind one bit. My kids know that I don't believe in God, but I have always encouraged them to form their own beliefs.

In fact, I'm sure it was a little traumatic for them at first. Kids look up to their Dad and I'm sure the first thing they thought was: Is Dad wrong, or are we wrong? Since they still believe in God as of now, they may even be worried that Dad won't get into heaven, etc. etc.

Anyway, I assured them that it's ok for them to believe in God. They're still too young to contemplate it all. I want them to know that there's another way to think, but I don't want them to worry about it right now. When they get old enough I'll tell them my thoughts if they ever ask. Otherwise, I don't feel I failed as a parent at all if they wind up having different beliefs than I do.
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  #19  
Old 12-25-2005, 03:07 AM
Lestat Lestat is offline
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Default Re: Wanna have a catch, Dad?

Instead of failure, you should feel pride that you have raised a son who is his own man.

And if he winds up an atheist, you should also take solace that he probably turned out a little smarter than his dad. [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

(sorry, couldn't resist).
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  #20  
Old 12-25-2005, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: Wanna have a catch, Dad?

[ QUOTE ]
And if he winds up an atheist, you should also take solace that he probably turned out a little smarter than his dad.

[/ QUOTE ]

My values lie more in being a man of honor, integrity, hard work, and discipline (something they'll get at Parris Island [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] ) over being an intellectual bookworm with a higher paying job than me, atheist or not.
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