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  #11  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:14 PM
JoshuaMayes JoshuaMayes is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

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You will also make random two-pairs, trips, and full houses from time to time.

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Yikes! Why not play every hand, then?



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Because every hand does not have a strangle hold on the low half of the pot if it comes!
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  #12  
Old 04-27-2005, 03:23 PM
Cleveland Guy Cleveland Guy is offline
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Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You will also make random two-pairs, trips, and full houses from time to time.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yikes! Why not play every hand, then?



[/ QUOTE ]

Because every hand does not have a strangle hold on Half of the low half of the pot if it comes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post
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  #13  
Old 04-27-2005, 04:10 PM
JoshuaMayes JoshuaMayes is offline
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Posts: 338
Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Because every hand does not have a strangle hold on Half of the low half of the pot if it comes!

[/ QUOTE ]

Fixed your post

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Good point. I guess I am just not as quick to assume that my opponents necessarily have A2 here as most of the other posters seem to be. You have a LAG raising in EP. He could, by definition, have a very wide range of hands, or else he would not be a LAG.

MP2, a solid player, then 3bets. If MP2 holds a hand like A23K or A2s with another wheel card, he is not going to want to shut everyone else out of the pot. He is trying to isolate EP with his 3bet. Why? What kind of hands is MP2 going to want to play headsup against the LAG, who he knows is likely to have a subpar holding? IMO he will want to play hands containing a big pair with some kind of low draw probably suited up. Hands like AA56, A3KK, A4QQ, A3TT, etc. are all contenders. In this range of hands, the only hand I would really hate to see is AA2, although I would not be thrilled to see A2KK-TT either.

Although it certainly possible that MP2, EP, or both has A2, it is by no means definite. Moreover, even if one of the other two has A2, they will be counterfeited if either an A or a 2 falls, but I will not be.

Finally, even if I get quaretered, in a three-handed pot I will not get hurt too badly, as I will lose only 1/4 of every bet I put in the pot.
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  #14  
Old 04-27-2005, 06:47 PM
domino domino is offline
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Location: los angeles calif
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

Thank you all so much for your input. I will now give you my thinking in the hand and the results as I know them. I felt it was most possible that one of my opponents held A2 while the mp2 most probably also held a big pair of some kind. I also assumed they both held an ace with something low. Since I felt that 2 other aces were out,there was a strong possibilty that one of them was drawing to big diamonds,at least bigger than my 9. If I am hoping to win the low I need somebody else to get counterfeited. But I figured at least 3 of the 6 cards I could count on were already out in their hands. I also decided that a lot of the smaller cards were out and I had no chance if high cards came. I folded the hand,the ep2 won the hand with AA46 for aces up,I never saw the mp2 hand but he played til the river,so I assumed he had at least a big low draw. Sorry I don't have more facts but that is the way it went down. Thanks again for all your comments,I was afraid I was getting so tight I was squeaking.
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  #15  
Old 04-27-2005, 06:56 PM
gergery gergery is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I tend towards folding here, but calling could be acceptable.

A23x is an excellent hand in a multi-way pot. But, when its up against other strong starting hands that include A2/AA AND is playing shorthanded then it is not that strong.

I must admit my first reaction was call, but on thinking it over I’d lean toward fold. But it would depend on who the opponents were specifically (I have data on many players) and what their PFR #s were.

You must call $25 into what will likely be a $90 pot. So you’d need a 27% equity in the hand to make calling correct. And you’d want more since you need a decent flop (have to fold before “maturity”).

If your opponents have AA and A2K, then you are about EV neutral.
If they have A3QQ, A2K, then you are EV-
If they have A4JJ, A3KK, then you are EV+.

Net, it’s pretty close either way and depends a lot on exactly what range they could have. What swings it to fold for me is that most of your equity below does not come from scooping, which means the times you win it is half pots and thus less profitable.

A)
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ah 2c 3d 9d - ac as td 6h - ad 2s kh 5h
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2c 9d 3d Ah 59775 103073 382695 14232 54366 11702 175906 0.295
As Ac Td 6h 135447 250418 246573 3009 4976 175449 1157 0.394
2s Ad Kh 5h 73110 129268 353491 17241 22045 43970 175906 0.311

B)
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ah 2c 3d 9d - ac qs qc 3h - ad 2s kh 5d
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2c 9d 3d Ah 26055 58389 421005 20606 27747 9896 225040 0.228
Qs Ac Qc 3h 134471 260290 228310 11400 0 134233 66743 0.434
2s Ad 5d Kh 79452 159095 327649 13256 22512 70738 162121 0.338

C)
pokenum -mc 500000 -o8 ah 2c 3d 9d - ac js jc 4h - ad 3s kh ks
Omaha Hi/Low 8-or-better: 500000 sampled boards
cards scoop HIwin HIlos HItie LOwin LOlos LOtie EV
2c 9d 3d Ah 66708 103524 385027 11449 173178 10194 96373 0.359
Js Ac Jc 4h 70750 130611 367400 1989 22781 172745 5794 0.218
Ks 3s Ad Kh 115747 253487 234135 12378 0 127656 96373 0.423
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  #16  
Old 04-28-2005, 10:19 AM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Default Re: a \"monster\" hand

I agree with this guy 100%.
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