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  #1  
Old 04-06-2005, 04:25 PM
Sluss Sluss is offline
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Default How standard is this bluff?

Pokerroom 50+4

Pretty tight table. CO has called a few raises with position and then folded the flop. I've only played 6 hands (and only two to the flop) hard and fast and have yet to show down a hand.

First hand of 75/150

Hero (t2700)
MP (t4200)
CO (t2600)
Button (t2600)
SB (t1635)
BB (t1265)


Preflop: Hero is UTG with A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
Hero raises to t400, MP folds,CO calls t400 , Button folds, SB fold, BB folds.

Flop: (t1025) 3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img],K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets t500, CO calls t500

Turn: (t2025) 4 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets 300, Hero raises all-in

Sure half his stack is in the middle but what can he call with here?
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  #2  
Old 04-06-2005, 04:37 PM
Paul2432 Paul2432 is offline
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Default Re: How standard is this bluff?

I think I would just call here. I am getting great odds to draw at the flush and an A or J may be outs also. If I miss I might lead out on the river. Of course, if you have reason to believe the opponent will fold, your play is certainly reasonable.

Paul
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  #3  
Old 04-06-2005, 05:01 PM
Texas Pete Texas Pete is offline
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Posts: 82
Default Re: How standard is this bluff?

He calls your continuation bet so assume he has something and you are beat. Then he bets and gives you the odds to call, so call. You still don't have anything. Since he called your bet before you can guess he might do it again.
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  #4  
Old 04-06-2005, 05:03 PM
jcm4ccc jcm4ccc is offline
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Default Re: How standard is this bluff?

Frankly, I think this whole hand is a mess. First off, you are UTG AND you are attacking the small stack. What happens if the BB puts you all-in? Then it is only 865 more chips to call, with at least 1700 chips in the pot. So pot odds will almost demand that you call. Under this circumstance, I would rather go all-in then make this raise. But given that the blinds aren't that great in relation to the stacks and you are UTG, I would either limp or fold.

Then, on the flop, you make a bet of half the pot and expect the CO to fold? On the turn, you make a strong bet, but it's a rather strange bet given what you've been doing so far (a weak raise on the flop and then a check-raise on the turn). I think you are trying to represent a flush, but I don't think you're doing a very good job of that.

On the turn, the CO is practically pot-committed at this point. He might lay this down, but there's a good chance that he won't.

It just seems so pointless to take these kind of risks with the blinds as small as they are and you having one of the better stacks. There will be much better opportunities to win chips without a bluff, or to semi-bluff when you have position.
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  #5  
Old 04-06-2005, 05:37 PM
Sluss Sluss is offline
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Default Re: How standard is this bluff?

[ QUOTE ]
First off, you are UTG AND you are attacking the small stack. What happens if the BB puts you all-in? Then it is only 865 more chips to call, with at least 1700 chips in the pot. So pot odds will almost demand that you call. Under this circumstance, I would rather go all-in then make this raise. But given that the blinds aren't that great in relation to the stacks and you are UTG, I would either limp or fold.


[/ QUOTE ]
Open pushing with 18x the BB is tough play to make. The chipleader is just to my right. If he wakes up with a hand I'm out. He comes over the top of me I fold and still have a nice stack.

If the BB goes all in here I probably call. But more because he is the loosest player at the table and I probably have him beat or am at least coinfliping.

[ QUOTE ]
Then, on the flop, you make a bet of half the pot and expect the CO to fold?

[/ QUOTE ]

Think this bet is fine. I'm not going to pot it or push. This is a simple continuation bet. If he had called with QJ AQ or any medium pair he probably tosses his hand right here.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, you make a strong bet, but it's a rather strange bet given what you've been doing so far (a weak raise on the flop and then a check-raise on the turn). I think you are trying to represent a flush, but I don't think you're doing a very good job of that.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly how I would play an A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. With me being the pre-flop raiser. How would it look more like a flush? Maybe if I made a smaller bet to make it look like I want a call, but I can't see him laying down for 300 more.

[ QUOTE ]
On the turn, the CO is practically pot-committed at this point. He might lay this down, but there's a good chance that he won't.


[/ QUOTE ]

Here is my line of thinking. If he has no [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. He just swallowed his heart at that turn. Hopefully pushing makes him just puke and fold. Faced with your tourney life when it still could be easy to make the money is a big factor in a tight table. This was my question though, how many people would fold here?

[ QUOTE ]
It just seems so pointless to take these kind of risks with the blinds as small as they are and you having one of the better stacks. There will be much better opportunities to win chips without a bluff, or to semi-bluff when you have position.

[/ QUOTE ]

You may be right. I just hate when someone meakly fends off my steal attempts. If he wants to come back at me hard I can respect it. But if you show that much weakness I'm going to cut your throat.
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  #6  
Old 04-06-2005, 06:58 PM
curtains curtains is offline
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Default Re: How standard is this bluff?


I would have raised to about 400 preflop. I would have bet about 600 on the flop. On the turn I think checking is fine and you are happy to see the 300 chip bet for two reasons:


1. You can simply call and get the correct odds to draw to your flush

2. There is some chance your opponent is weak/scared due to his small bet, and will fold to an allin.


I think either play is reasonable here, although don't expect your opponent to fold with a hand like KTo no heart. There's a lot of money in the pot, and if you think your opponent will fold a decent portion of the time then moving allin is fine, especially since you will win a decent amount of the time when you are called.



- It's also possible to simply open allin on the turn, but this would require knowledge that your opponent is going to fold a pretty reasonable % of the time. If your opponent will fold on the turn 50% of the time, then allin is decent, as there is 1800 in the pot and you have only 1800 remaining, and of course will win sometimes when called.
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  #7  
Old 04-07-2005, 07:14 AM
Sluss Sluss is offline
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Default Re: How standard is this bluff?

[ QUOTE ]
It's also possible to simply open allin on the turn, but this would require knowledge that your opponent is going to fold a pretty reasonable % of the time. If your opponent will fold on the turn 50% of the time, then allin is decent, as there is 1800 in the pot and you have only 1800 remaining, and of course will win sometimes when called.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like this line as well. I thought if I checked I might see a check behind and get a free river. When he bet the min I had to push. He went in the tank for his whole timer and called. Turned over A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Then a wonderful 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] came on the river. Sure my image was shot, which turned out to be a good thing since I went on a rush and ran over the table and was heads up by the 100/200.

I loved my fold equity here I just think that the pot odds were too good for him to pass up. I have a feeling he would have folded any other King. I think the fact that he was only beat by a flush made him take the odds.
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  #8  
Old 04-07-2005, 08:02 AM
swarm swarm is offline
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Default Re: How standard is this bluff?

The villan is just terrible, only reason you won this hand...

A) he should have pushed you preflop

B) I can't for the life of me figure out what he was doing on the flop just smooth calling your bet

As for the bluff on the turn, meh, I prefer just calling the 300. My thoughts as the villan would be why would a made flush put me all in here. Even if you are right, he just has a medium pair or a K with no kicker you will be shocked at how many call your all in.

Even if you don't hit your flush, you still have a healthy enough stack to steal some blinds and get back in the game.
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