quick AA question

[hightizzy]

i remember reading a post stating that if one has AA and everyone at the table calls (8 or 9 person table, cant remember which) then the person with the AA has zero chance of winning. my question is this: is this assuming that all of the people at the table are somewhat experienced? i could see how this could be true at a table of experienced players, but is it also true at a table full of players that would call with any possible hand?

[topbrelan]

I think AA is somewhere around 25-30% against a full table -totally wrong?

[Online247]

[ QUOTE ]
i remember reading a post stating that if one has AA and everyone at the table calls (8 or 9 person table, cant remember which) then the person with the AA has zero chance of winning. my question is this: is this assuming that all of the people at the table are somewhat experienced? i could see how this could be true at a table of experienced players, but is it also true at a table full of players that would call with any possible hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

And you believed it? Do you fold a lot to raises as well?

[M.B.E.]

[ QUOTE ]
i remember reading a post stating that if one has AA and everyone at the table calls (8 or 9 person table, cant remember which) then the person with the AA has zero chance of winning.

[/ QUOTE ]
http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/...?Number=546354

[Cerril]

AA can't be drawing dead PF, but any situations where you're facing a lot of raises AND the other two aces are in someone else's hand are likely to be dangerous, since your chance of taking the whole pot has dropped to catching a one-card flush or straight. Still, you need a combination of a lot of bad things postflop and probably going to the turn to make it worth folding.

[hightizzy]

this was just a question and reflects in no way on how i play. i was just curious as to how this could possibly be. i now see that the person who posted this was speaking of a game involving 10+ characters.

[hightizzy]

your friend said that he was certain that his aces were dead at the table. thats why i was asking about whether or not this would be true with inexperienced players, seeing as there are so many card combinations that could come out.

[autobet]

This was a set up problem. Ignore it.

You will win around 30% against everyone. So you are a 3-1 dog getting 9-1 on your money.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
i remember reading a post stating that if one has AA and everyone at the table calls (8 or 9 person table, cant remember which) then the person with the AA has zero chance of winning.

[/ QUOTE ]
Complete nonsense.

[ QUOTE ]
my question is this: is this assuming that all of the people at the table are somewhat experienced?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, experienced players can make you lose with red aces by concentrating hard and looking mean. Fold red aces preflop.

What is true is that you can arrange 9 other hands so that a player with AA has very little chance to win, even without another player holding AA. Here is an example I constructed:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=840376
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 716 0.36 200589 99.61 71 0.04 0.004
A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 29589 14.69 171716 85.27 71 0.04 0.147
A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 27519 13.67 173786 86.30 71 0.04 0.137
K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 31702 15.74 169663 84.25 11 0.01 0.157
Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 25699 12.76 175666 87.23 11 0.01 0.128
J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 20860 10.36 180505 89.64 11 0.01 0.104
T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 17408 8.64 183957 91.35 11 0.01 0.086
8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 13902 6.90 187463 93.09 11 0.01 0.069
5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 15227 7.56 186138 92.43 11 0.01 0.076
7[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 18683 9.28 182682 90.72 11 0.01 0.093

However, in the vast majority of situations, it is ridiculous to fold AA preflop. It wins far more than its fair share in multiway pots.

[jtr]

[ QUOTE ]
You will win around 30% against everyone. So you are a 3-1 dog getting 9-1 on your money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed, except that you are more like a 2.2-to-1 dog.