88 CO

[roy_miami]

I'm in the CO with red 8's

All fold to a LAG 2 positions to my right who limps
Player on my right, semi-tight aggressive raises

What do you do? Raise, call 2 cold or fold?

[elysium]

hi roy

if you think raising will induce a check to you by a hand that might be ahead of yours, but also one that will not fold to your flop betout, then you should raise. and i think that's what you have here.

[Clarkmeister]

Any of the above.

[Billy Baroo]

I'd fold.

If you play this hand, you'll have to weather a lot of bets from a LAG and a raiser to see if your hand is best. And since at least one overcard is likely to come, you won't feel to good about your hand.

If the limper was weak, then 3 betting becomes a good option, but with a loose/aggressive limper I'd just wait for a better spot to enter the pot in this situation.

[ike]

[ QUOTE ]
wait for a better spot

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the single worst phrase in current use on these boards. The future existance of better situations is completely irrelevant. This one is +EV for a call or for a raise and you need to play it.

[nummerfire]

[ QUOTE ]
This one is +EV for a call or for a raise and you need to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why ?

What range of hands are you putting the semitight player on.


Kim

[Billy Baroo]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the single worst phrase in current use on these boards. The future existance of better situations is completely irrelevant. This one is +EV for a call or for a raise and you need to play it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't mean to imply that I'd fold because there might be hands that offer better +EV in the future. I just don't think playing 88 in this situation is +EV (at least I don't think it is for me, but it might be for you when you play.)

Regardless, since you believe this hand has a positive expectation I would like to know why you think so, and how you would deal with the potential postflop problems the hand has... (Not trying to attack you here, just curious to hear an opposing viewpoint on the hand)

[roy_miami]

This is my point of this post. I almost always fold medium pocket pairs in this situation and I'm wondering if I'm being too weak pre-flop. I'm thinking EV wise it is really close as to which way to go on this one. My logic for folding has always been that even though I probably have the best hand pre-flop, I am no doubt in at least a race against over cards and every so often I'll be up against a bigger pocket pair, so why take the chance? My problem with this hand is I have no problem raising with it first in and if I limp with it, it doesn't bother me too much to call a raise behind me so I feel like because I normally play this hand for 2 bets anyway, maybe calling this hand for 2 bets with pretty good position isn't that bad a play.

What do y'all think?

[Derek in NYC]

Middle pocket pair with a LAG in the pot already, and a raise in front by somebody you've described as tight-aggressive. Call me a weak-tight, but I'd fold this also. Three reasons:

1. You could well be facing a 3-bet if somebody behind you or the LAG wanted to reraise. No way you want to play a middle pair for 3 bets.

2. You're going to be up against 2 opponents (the LAG and the TAG), so you'll likely face several overcards to draw out on you, even if something doesnt hit the flop. Two overcards is a horserace, and 3 is disastrous. (Not to mention the possibility of domination by a hand like TT). The LAG is likely playing any 2 broadway cards or possibly a small PP, the TAG has a pocket pair at least as large as your snowmen, or two big suited/connected.

3. Even if overcards dont hit, it would be hard for you to play the hand too hard on the flop and later streets (absent a set). You're guaranteed to get callers on the flop even if the flop is rags, and you're likely going to be in check-call mode on later streets because you can't feel too good about your hand, even as an overpair. (Maybe all check to you on later streets, and you get the LAGGY caller with overcards)