15/30 TT against a TAG

Nightwish · #1 09-15-2004, 09:33 PM

MP3 is a TAG. I have played almost 1,100 hands with him, though given that it's spread out over quite a few different screen names, I'm not sure if he realizes exactly how many hands he's played against me. He is definitely a winning player, very aggressive, though I've also seen him call down in situations where it was clear (at least to me) that he was beat. His VP$IP is 21, and his PFR is 9.

Needless to say, I don't go up against him that often, which is why I found this hand interesting.

The BB is a typical Party LAG.

Given all that, what hand do you put the TAG on and what should I do on the turn?

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Nightwish is UTG+1 with T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, Nightwish raises, 2 folds, MP3 (TAG) calls, CO calls, 1 fold, SB calls, BB (Loosie) calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Loosie bets, UTG folds, Nightwish raises, TAG 3-bets, CO folds, SB folds, Loosie calls, Nightwish caps, TAG calls, Loosie calls.

Turn: (12 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Loosie checks, Nightwish bets, TAG raises, Loosie folds

Steve Giufre · #2 09-15-2004, 09:50 PM

Night,

I give him A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], maybe A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. I know the pot is big, but I'd let it go on the turn. I dont think he is gonna check behind this river, he's got ya. Also, even though the third player doesnt command a lot of respect, he gives a you little protection because it's harder for the TAG to make a move on you with him in the pot.

Analyst · #3 09-15-2004, 09:55 PM

Hmmm . . . TAG cold-called but didn't 3-bet. I'll take a shot and say he has something like big suited clubs, AJ or possibly KQ. It's very hard to imagine that he has a set or A2/A3/A5, even suited, or 44.

You need to call the turn bet. You're getting 15:1 and (assuming that he doesn't have the unlikely set or even more unlikely straight) have two T outs to win and three chop-outs in the non-club 4s.

mmcd · #4 09-15-2004, 10:04 PM

He has AK or AQ clubs.

Fold.

Analyst · #5 09-15-2004, 10:17 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He has AK or AQ clubs.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is unlikely as TAG would 3-bet PF, but even if he showed you these cards, you'd have to call.

2/42 * 450 = $21.43 for the two T outs (and you'd probably win another 1-2 bets on the rivers)

3/42 * 225 = $16.07 for the non-club 4s

Gotta call.

Steve Giufre · #6 09-15-2004, 10:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He has AK or AQ clubs.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is unlikely as TAG would 3-bet PF, but even if he showed you these cards, you'd have to call.

2/42 * 450 = $21.43 for the two T outs (and you'd probably win another 1-2 bets on the rivers)

3/42 * 225 = $16.07 for the non-club 4s

Gotta call.

[/ QUOTE ]

I didnt notice the 4 makes it a chop. That changes things a bit.

stanky · #7 09-15-2004, 10:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]
He has AK or AQ clubs.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. He might also have AJ of clubs. But anyway these seem to be the only reasonable hands a winning TAG would call you with pre-flop assuming he knows your line of play, and then play the flop and turn the way he did.

-pete

stanky · #8 09-15-2004, 10:41 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He has AK or AQ clubs.

Fold.

[/ QUOTE ]

AK [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] is unlikely as TAG would 3-bet PF

[/ QUOTE ]

I think a TAG would call with AK suited especially if he thinks Nightwish is a TAG. He might want to try and play this multi-way rather than 3-betting and isolating Nightwish

-pete

Senor Choppy · #9 09-15-2004, 11:09 PM

AJ or AQ of clubs are good possibilities. 44 or 55 are also fairly likely. And if he's smart he might be making a move with 66-99 or JJ on the turn knowing you probably wouldn't cap with any hand that includes an ace and knows the turn card is definitely a scare card for you (unless you have AA).

I'd fold against most TAG players.

elindauer · #10 09-16-2004, 12:06 AM

You're probably up against A [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], but you could be facing, say K [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] or 66, 77, 88, 99. There's enough doubt about your opponent's holding and you have enough outs to improve to a win / chop that you should simply call it down.

my 2 cents.
Eric