Folding Too Much: Part 1

Moozh · #1 08-15-2005, 07:32 PM

I've always had a WTSD far below the standard. I've never been happy about it, but I've never really been able to get it up (the WTSD stat, that is). Possibly an indication of the same problem, my aggression stats are very high(4.5/3.5/2.5), which is probably due to the fact that I'm making too many folds. So over the next few days I'm going to try and find some close folds I made to see if I'm playing scared. Here's the first. Villian is too loose pre-flop, but properly aggressive post-flop.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, Hero raises, 1 fold, BB calls, UTG calls.

Flop: (6.33 SB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, Hero raises, BB folds, UTG calls.

Turn: (5.16 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 8.16 BB

whodaman · #2 08-15-2005, 07:38 PM

this is read dependent imo

ArturiusX · #3 08-15-2005, 07:45 PM

I think we have to at least peel with the gutter.

Kyle · #4 08-15-2005, 07:46 PM

Try this to help get to SD more. If your heads up on the the turn and your hand cant stand a raise check behind and call a river bet or bet if checked to. Do this for a little while and you will get more of a feel on which hands to bet on the turn and which to check and call a river bet.

GoHoosiers · #5 08-15-2005, 07:49 PM

I really have a hard time laying down PPs short handed.

That being said, I want to show this down. I check behind on the turn, which might be giving Villian a free card, but I don't mind a free card either. If he was betting out on the flop with TP, or 2 pr, we have outs to a set or a straight. If we don't hit those, we can show down for one last BB.

I am new to short-handed, but that's how I'd play it.

Rich

#6 08-15-2005, 07:55 PM

You're getting 8 to 1. Even given the fact that some outs may be dirty, you're still getting easily enough to call the turn drawing to your gutshot or the 8. Add to that the fair chance this 'properly aggressive' player is full of it and raising with a draw, meaning that you have the best hand, and this is a very easy call for me.

Moozh · #7 08-15-2005, 07:55 PM

Hmm, I like this idea on a trial basis. I know earlier I was really scared of turn check raises and ended up giving a lot of free cards. It didn't take long to lose quite a few pots on the free river. Since then I've really been working on making myself bet the turn more. Still, this is a good way to work on my reads as long as it's not going to become a established part of my game.

IGMorton · #8 08-15-2005, 07:59 PM

you have too many outs to fold i think

what can he have than he would raise the flop and the turn? 2 pair, trips, top pair or an overpair are all likely. you have six outs (2 8's and 4 6's) to beat 77, 55, 44, 75, 79, 74, 95, 94, 54, A9, K9, Q9, J9, T9, AA-TT etc). only if he has 99 you do you have less outs (4 sixes). if he has 68 you are drawing dead... but how often is that?

if you toss in the minor possibility he has a backdoor flush draw i'd guess you have around 5 outs. there's no way i'm folding here getting 8:1. you may even have the best hand right now. another reason to call down is for future hands... you want to be able to slow play monsters next time around.

Kyle · #9 08-15-2005, 08:02 PM

Remember dont get gun shy on the turn just only check behind if your heads up and you will have to fold if check raised on the turn. Not if your scared of getting raised. This will lead to too many missed value bets and too many free cards that will cost you pots.

Moozh · #10 08-15-2005, 08:49 PM

Ok, so when you take the gutshot and add it to the chances that I might be ahead, it seems like a pretty clear call. So what about the river if I miss? Call a safe card like a 2? Fold if it comes king or an ace? Call down regardless? I know it's hard without a read, I'm just looking for a range of opinions on this one.