What is the best theoretical number of preflop callers to AA?

[mgdpublic]

Abdul Jalib says that having everyone fold to your preflop AA raise is a "statistical disaster." This implies that you want some callers, but do you really want everyone to call? Doesn't that mean that there are probably too many drawing hands out there? If thats the case, then in a ten person "typical" game there should be a theoretical ideal number of callers, correct? If not, why? If so, how many?

[thirddan]

in a 10 handed limit hold em ring game, i would like precisely 9 callers...

[mgdpublic]

Well is there a theoretical number of best callers, and if so, is that it?

[Stork]

Did you miss thirddan's reply? You want all the callers you can get.

[TomCollins]

You can pretty much give the other 9 players any cards but one with AA, and you are still going to make out better than 1 player folding with the best of those 9 hands.

[felson]

If you can get all the money in preflop, then you definitely everyone to play with you. The same is probably true if the preflop action is capped.

On the other hand, if you raise UTG and everybody calls, and then the BB is a decent player and holds 22, then I would prefer that BB fold. BB will only give you postflop action if he flops a set, and he has the pot odds to do it. He would be making a mistake to fold, and that's a mistake I want him to make.

But don't let this deter you. With aces you want as much money in preflop as possible, from as money people as possible. Most of the time people will be facing off against you with worse hands than pocket pairs. So raise, raise, raise, and be happy when people put their chips in the middle.

[Iceman]

[ QUOTE ]
Abdul Jalib says that having everyone fold to your preflop AA raise is a "statistical disaster." This implies that you want some callers, but do you really want everyone to call?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes.

[ QUOTE ]
Doesn't that mean that there are probably too many drawing hands out there?

[/ QUOTE ]

No. AA welcomes action from drawing hands in limit holdem - they don't hit nearly often enough to make up for the two preflop bets they have to call.


[ QUOTE ]
If thats the case, then in a ten person "typical" game there should be a theoretical ideal number of callers, correct? If not, why? If so, how many?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd prefer nine callers. AA wins around one third of the time against nine random hands - in EV terms, that's much better than winning 85% of the time against one random hand.

[mgdpublic]

Good. Thanks guys.

[TomCollins]

I doubt you could lose money playing low liimts and raise AA at every street and never fold.

[mosta]

Is 25 callers suboptimal? 25BB is a pretty nice sized pot, but not the biggest I've ever seen. If the floor man is going to insist on dealing board cards, that means you can only get 22 callers at most. How does AA do against 22 random hands? let me see if I can get two dimes to do this.

It looks like twodimes doesn't like dealing more than 12 hands of holdem:

Holdem Hi: 98280 enumerated boards
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
As Ac 69052 70.26 28732 29.23 496 0.50 0.703
Qs Qc 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
Qd Qh 1840 1.87 95944 97.62 496 0.50 0.019
Js Jc 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
Jd Jh 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
Ts Tc 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
Td Th 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
9s 9c 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
9d 9h 0 0.00 97784 99.50 496 0.50 0.000
8s 8c 0 0.00 96112 97.79 2168 2.21 0.009
8d 8h 48 0.05 96064 97.75 2168 2.21 0.009
7s 7c 25172 25.61 72612 73.88 496 0.50 0.257

As Ac
Qc Qs
Qh jd
jc js
jh qd
tc ts
th td
9c 9s
9h 9d
8c 8s
8h 8d
7c 7s
7h 7d
6h 6d
6c 6s
5c 5s
5h 5d
4c 4s
4h 4d
3c 3s
3h 3d
2c 2s
2h 2d

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=606867
pokenum -h as ac - qc qs - qh jd - jc js - jh qd - tc ts - th td - 9c 9s - 9h 9d - 8c 8s - 8h 8d - 7c 7s - 7h 7d - - 6h 6d - 6c 6s - - 5c 5s - 5h 5d - 4c 4s - 4h 4d - 3c 3s - 3h 3d - 2c 2s - 2h 2d
usage: ./pokenum [-t] [-mc niter] [-h|-h8|-o|-o8|-7s|-7s8|-7snsq|-r|-5d|-5d8|-5dnsq|-l|-l27]
- - ... [ -- ] [ / ] ]

not even when I mix up the hands a little bit. need to find another plan of attack.