The pope is an idiot. Catholics are dumb in general.

[Jack of Arcades]

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"Birth control of any kind should not be used because sex is supposed to be within marriage and for pro-creation only."

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Could someone explain this? If having premarital sex is a sin on it's own, why does doing it with a condom make it any different? How does a condom add or subtract from the wrongfulness of premarital sex? I think we all know the answer, I'd like to hear someone say it.

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Because it prevents conception. Pre-emptive abortion.

[Clarkmeister]

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If we are assuming abstinance then why does the Church feel the need to discourage condom use?

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Because the Church is against artificial birth control.

[Phoenix1010]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
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"Birth control of any kind should not be used because sex is supposed to be within marriage and for pro-creation only."

[/ QUOTE ]

Could someone explain this? If having premarital sex is a sin on it's own, why does doing it with a condom make it any different? How does a condom add or subtract from the wrongfulness of premarital sex? I think we all know the answer, I'd like to hear someone say it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Because it prevents conception. Pre-emptive abortion.

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Wow.

[Emmitt2222]

OK, since you don't want to read the link, all of this has been addressed. This is a quote from the other thread and, no surprise, there are people once again saying absurd comments without all the facts and Clark is the only one speaking logically.

"For all of the smart people in this forum with high IQ's there is a crap load of misinformation on the Catholic Church. There is a book called the Catechism of the Catholic Church and although it can be a little tricky to handle, it has all the answers you need in it.

The Catholic Church is against premarital sex and against contraception. The reasons behind rejecting contraception is not related to premarital sex. Even contraception in marriage is wrong. The reason is that sex is created as the ultimate act of love in which two people share of themselves so completely that they wish to bring about another person through the other. Intercourse is both essentially unitive and procreative. The act must always be OPEN to procreation, which contraception does not allow. The Church does allow something called Natural Family PLanning NFP, where you can have sex during certain times of the month according to the woman's cycle which 99% of the time does not end in getting pregnant, as effective as a condom. The reason that this is allowed is because it is always open to life and the couple is not necessarily ready for a child but they are saying with their bodies that if a child does come about they will be accepting of it. When using contraception, you are saying with your body that you want to avoid a child at all cost and just derive pleasure which is a selfish act and not what sex is meant for. This leads to what the Church calls the "contraceptive mentality" where people are much more ready to have an abortion because the condom broke and they didn't mean for it to happen. Basically life gets devalued when you try to avoid it in an essentially life-giving act. That's what this is all about, being open to life, pro-life. Partygurl is right that many people will fail even though these teachings are given out because we are a fallen people, but it is still in our free will to follow them and it is always our choice so we should keep striving for it and not give up just we fall constantly.

Hope that makes enough sense on Church teaching. Thanks to Clarkmeister for being coherent amidst the confusion. "

[Cornell Fiji]

Clark, in the other thread you said:
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The Church's ultimate goal is not education or prevention. It is to teach a moral standard. That's the thing that people don't seem to get.

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Is it safe to infer that the church's priorities are as follows?

1.) God is one, God is great...
n+1) One should not have sex out of wedlock or have premarital sex
n + some number greater than 1) A human life has intrinsic value that is important and the health and wellbeing of humans are important.


What my argument boils down to (I think) is that I feel that my third premise is more important than my second premise while the church is saying (I think) that abstinance is more important than human health because it is discouraging condoms.

In fact, I would go as far as saying that by discouraging condom use teaches the moral standard that health and life are not important. Which seems contradictory to some other things that I have heard about the Church and its teachings...

[The Stranger]

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In fact, I would go as far as saying that by discouraging condom use teaches the moral standard that health and life are not important. Which seems contradictory to some other things that I have heard about the Church and its teachings...

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If you are a virgin when you get married, and your spouse is also a virgin, and both of you are faithful to each other, and neither of you are IV drug users, having sex without a condom is extremely safe as far as STDs are concerned.

[PoBoy321]

Yes, the Pope is encouraging them not to use condoms, because they shouldn't be having sex. If they don't have sex, they won't have to use condoms. If someone chooses to disobey the church, that's not the church's problem, and if they choose high risk behaviors, that's their problem, not the church's.

EDIT: Although, of course, if you do choose to engage in those high risk behaviors and become infected with HIV/AIDS, their are many church run programs, especially in the 3rd world, to help you.

[wacki]

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In fact, I would go as far as saying that by discouraging condom use teaches the moral standard that health and life are not important. Which seems contradictory to some other things that I have heard about the Church and its teachings...

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are a virgin when you get married, and your spouse is also a virgin, and both of you are faithful to each other, and neither of you are IV drug users, having sex without a condom is extremely safe as far as STDs are concerned.

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The fact that this has to be explained to some people really amazes me.

[PoBoy321]

Thank you, OOT mods.

[bernie]

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Blaming the Church when their teachings are 100% effective is to absolve the idiots who contract AIDS of any and all personal responsibility. They messed up, they die. Them's the breaks.


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That would be blaming the victims though, wouldn't it? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

b