88 3-bets a steal from the CO. SB cold call.

[BigEndian]

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: BigEndian is Button with 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
<font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises</font>, <font color="#CC3333">BigEndian 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets</font>, CO calls, BigEndian...

CO is a tightish player. Don't know if I would go so far as to call a brotha good, but he can recognize a pair of aces when they're dealt to him. The SB is loose, and passive for 5/10.

- Jim

[Little Fishy]

unless you think you can milk 6-7 BBs from villains if you hit your set than a fold is in order.

there's going to be action on the turn that wont be worth playing with unless you spike a set. the chances that you'll spike a set are 4.25%- about 4.5% (depending on weather you attribute the action to say that neither SB nor CO hold an 8). you're getting 1:12 in immediete equity when you need about 1:23. this means that you need 13 more SB's (or 6.5 BB's) guarunteed in future excpected bets order for a call to be worthwhile.

So, unless you see SB and CO opening up a lot on the turn and river than a fold is in order.

-little fishy

[BigEndian]

What about the chance that my hand is good, how does that effect things?

- Jim

[BigEndian]

Let's see if the morning crowd finds this more interesting.

- Jim

[Michael Davis]

There's no way I'd fold the flop, although SB's play is a bigger pocket pair if he's not horrible. I'd call the flop and reevaluate on the turn. I know for sure that a SB bet followed by a CO raise is a fold. So is, probably, a CO bet. A SB bet followed by a CO call and I don't know.

-Michael

[Stu Pidasso]

[ QUOTE ]
What about the chance that my hand is good, how does that effect things?


[/ QUOTE ]


You got reverse implied odds problems. If your bound and determined, a frop raise is the likely path to the cheapest showdown. Its too bad you're not heads up.

Stu

[Jeffage]

You may be beat, but you may not. I'd raise and see what happens. I doubt SB bets here with a jack...he either has you beat (like 10-10) or he doesn't (44, 55, some other crap). Guy in the middle either has a jack or something like AK, AQ (if he has Aces or kings, he prob raises to see "where's he at"). I would raise and see what happens. If they both call, look to check most turn cards. If you get reraised you have problems (particularly if cutoff coldcalls)...then you can just muck.

Jeff

[SA125]

[ QUOTE ]
You may be beat, but you may not. I'd raise and see what happens. I doubt SB bets here with a jack...he either has you beat (like 10-10) or he doesn't (44, 55, some other crap). Guy in the middle either has a jack or something like AK, AQ (if he has Aces or kings, he prob raises to see "where's he at"). I would raise and see what happens. If they both call, look to check most turn cards. If you get reraised you have problems (particularly if cutoff coldcalls)...then you can just muck.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thinking the same thing.

[BigEndian]

Well, in a weak-tight moment I folded. There's seems to be reasonable voices for both a call or a raise.

Calling doesn't seem too bad an option - though it opens myself up to reverse implied odds. And unless the CO is likely to make a move on the turn with a worse hand, I can fold to further action on the turn. This seems to win me the most when I'm ahead and lose the least when I'm behind.

Raising doesn't really get me much more imo other than I can fold to a 3-bet or futher action on later streets for about the same price as calling down to a showdown. And a cheap showdown isn't really what I'm looking for is it? If my opponents have overs and/or a pair worse than mine, checking the turn is costly.

- Jim

[Nate tha' Great]

Let's start with the flop because it's easy. The flop is a call IMO and I don't know that it's that close. You're closing the action, might well have the best hand ... and hell worst case scenario you'll spike an 8 now and then. I don't see what raising accomplishes. It doesn't protect your hand, doesn't scare anyone away, doesn't tell you where you're at, and is pretty marginal in terms of value.

From there on you have to ask yourself just what you think of the SB: is he the sort of guy that would bet out with trip jacks on the flop? My guess is that these loose semi-passive types are usually the sort who are going to have the inclination to slowplay, but I certainly wouldn't be shocked if he does have the jacks.

But here's a best guess at what I'd do on the turn:

SB bets, CO raises: easy fold. If CO wants to make a play here with a worse hand ... well, you're not letting him get off cheaply.

SB bets, CO calls, scare card comes. If something like an ace or a king comes, and you get a bet and call in spite of that, I think you can safely fold.

SB bets, CO calls, blank comes. Believe it or not, I think this is probably a raise. You can fold to a 3-bet and don't have to put a bet in on the river if you don't want to. Raising costs the same as calling down, but charges a potential overcard draw from the CO, and might get a fold from something like 99: this is how they're expecting you to play trip jacks, if you have them, and the fact that you're raising two players gives you some amount of credibility.

SB bets, CO folds. Now there's less incentive to raise and you're more likely to get called down since it's heads up, so I probably just call down regardless of the card that comes. Raising and folding to a 3-bet isn't horrible, though.

SB checks, CO bets. What a mess. I think I probably raise and make that the last money I'm putting in the pot, but I don't know.