How do you like this line?

bozlax · #1 05-16-2005, 09:44 PM

Not many hands, but from what I've seen UTG is a reasonable player, SB and UTG+2 are nutballs.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. MP3 posts a blind of $0.5.
UTG raises, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 1 fold, MP3 (poster) calls, 2 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Getting 11 to 1 and closing the preflop action, I'm seeing this flop!

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 folds, SB calls, Hero calls.

Ok, top pair, broadway kicker, the PFR bets out, nobody raises, and I'm closing the action again. I figure it's about 50/50 he's betting with overcards or an overpair, so I decide to use the WA/WB call-call-bet line. Call #1.

Turn: (8.50 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players)
SB checks, Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 bets, MP1 folds, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls.

Uh-oh, new bettor. He's like a defensive dog, tho, and attacks any sign of weakness with anything, so I'll see the river, too. I'm a little worried about a C/R from UTG, but I don't think he's slowing down if he's got a hand he likes. Call #2.

River: (12.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets...

River's a blank, so I follow through and bet. Comments?

DeathDonkey · #2 05-16-2005, 09:45 PM

That isn't a blank given your reads on your silly opponents. Checkraise the turn, or lead the turn. Even checkraising the flop isn't too bad. I don't like this line.

-DeathDonkey

Disconnected · #3 05-16-2005, 10:04 PM

I would have bet into the pre-flop raiser on the flop, hoping that he'd thin the field out for me. Your pair and your kicker are both pretty vulnerable, if you're going to make it hold up, you've got to hope that overcards are folding. As it is, I don't think you can use WA/WB with so many opponents.

Given the flop play, I would have bet out on the turn; it would be bad if this got checked through and everyone sees the river for free.

River's not a blank -- it puts 4 to a straight on the board.

tallboy · #4 05-16-2005, 10:07 PM

Because SB and UTG+2 are "nutballs"--which I take to mean they are loose, I would probably check with the straight potential on board (only needing a 7), planning to call one bet.

UncleSalty · #5 05-16-2005, 10:13 PM

I like this spot for a WA/WB line on the flop. However, given your reads I'd say UTG's turn check is definitely weakness and put him on overcards. A solid player with the goods would know better than to try a c/r against opponents who haven't shown any aggression yet.

Given your read that UTG+2 is putting a move on apparent weakness, I would c/r the turn to try and fold UTG. This board is pretty uncoordinated, and it seems likely to me that you are now ahead more often than behind.

River bet g00t.

Duerig · #6 05-16-2005, 11:11 PM

Actually I like very little about this hand. I would probably fold preflop here. Since you didn't, I'd like to bet this flop, hoping the pf raiser will raise and face the field with 2 cold to protect your hand.

One quick thing about your post (which other posters may have already said, I haven't read them yet): You don't really want to use the WA / WB line when there are so many opponents in the pot. WA / WB is for when you are heads up generally. Also, in this case, you weren't WA / WB. The pf raiser could have AK, giving him 6 outs, or they could have AA, giving you 5 outs.

ArturiusX · #7 05-16-2005, 11:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I like this spot for a WA/WB line on the flop. However, given your reads I'd say UTG's turn check is definitely weakness and put him on overcards. A solid player with the goods would know better than to try a c/r against opponents who haven't shown any aggression yet.

Given your read that UTG+2 is putting a move on apparent weakness, I would c/r the turn to try and fold UTG. This board is pretty uncoordinated, and it seems likely to me that you are now ahead more often than behind.

River bet g00t.

[/ QUOTE ]

WA/WB with this many opponents? Huh? I'm confused.

I check-raise the flop and go from there. Preflop call is fine is you have good postflop skills.

aK13 · #8 05-16-2005, 11:25 PM

Bet the flop, and hope UTG raises to knock out players. Your hand is vulnerable and theres a lot of players, and there's no good way to protect it except like this.

EDIT: I also don't like check/raising this flop, as we're just going to bloat this pot for everyone to outdraw us.

ArturiusX · #9 05-16-2005, 11:29 PM

I've actually changed my mind, theres 2 decent lines that I see:

Betting the flop, with a good chance UTG will raise, hopefully knock misc gutshots out and the like.

Or, check-calling (folding if its anymore than 1 back to you), and check-raising the turn on a safe card. The problem with the last line is, what exactly is a safe card here, except our J/9 outs? It's a difficult play, but yeah.

I think each line is fine to use.

UncleSalty · #10 05-17-2005, 12:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like this spot for a WA/WB line on the flop. However, given your reads I'd say UTG's turn check is definitely weakness and put him on overcards. A solid player with the goods would know better than to try a c/r against opponents who haven't shown any aggression yet.

Given your read that UTG+2 is putting a move on apparent weakness, I would c/r the turn to try and fold UTG. This board is pretty uncoordinated, and it seems likely to me that you are now ahead more often than behind.

River bet g00t.

[/ QUOTE ]

WA/WB with this many opponents? Huh? I'm confused.

I check-raise the flop and go from there. Preflop call is fine is you have good postflop skills.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, I shouldn't have called it that. Really I just meant that a check/call on this flop was ok, but that a c/r would be my preference on the turn in this situation.