Want to learn NL, how deep should I start?

I hate people who play like you.

I really hated them in limit too, heh.

The only way to counterbalance this is to start checking more. Vs habitual callers I'll check behind on the flop more often instead of making a continuation bet, or if I'm out of position I'll bet the flop and checkraise the turn. This isn't actually so bad since if I raise preflop I'm going to see 4 cards for my initial raise most of the time if you don't start betting out on the flop. But like you said, you'll check behind sometimes as well when I'm oop and go for a checkraise, with or without a hand. Still, this is the only way I know of to combat this.

BTW, assuming you're a 2 BB/100 winner at 10/20 limit...

1/2 is a donk fest. There aren't many TAGs playing an optimal style. They're usually either too tight or a little too aggressive and go to far with one pair/overpair hands. The mediocre to bad players are absolutely horrible, and this is coming from someone who is just playing UB/Stars.

Still, I don't think you should start at 2/4 NL considering this game plays equal to or bigger than 10/20 limit.

I'd start at 1/2 and get your education there.

[4_2_it]

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Can you address the points I made here?

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I enjoyed that discussion and didn't partake because my play is probably more aligned with yours than with a true TAGs. I think you still have the "aggressive" attitude, you just exhibit your aggression a little differently.

I think the "fold or raise" mantra is to help players (like me), who tend to become calling stations, take a better mental approach to the game.

I will add that I think your style will probably have a lower variance because you are not probing and raising at every opportunity. You appear willing to forgo some EV in order to get a better read on the action and/or control a pot (which is probably a good thing in many situations). You probably do not win as much as you could in your winning sessions, but I would think you save much more on your losses in your losing sessions, so this is probably also a plus. I can't see any 'fundamental' flaws in your approach and I can see how a good player could do well using it.

It appears you play at the 400 level which is different from the 100 and 200 levels I am familiar with so that could also cause us to perceive our opponents differently.

[JaBlue]

You should be fine at .50-1.00 or 1-2

[mantasm]

Thanks for the advice everyone. I'll probably start at one of the lower limits and move up as quickly as I feel comfortable.

[rikz]

Buy-in for the full amount at a limit where you are comfortable losing 10-20 max buy-ins in a week without worrying about anything other than "What are the leaks in my game that are causing me to lose so much?" Odds are that you probably will do fine and not actually lose so much. It's more likely you'll play 20K hands and ask, "Why am I only winning X BB/100 hands instead of doing better...?"

I wouldn't buy-in for less than the full amount because your game plan changes quite a bit if you're playing short-stacked. Since you're trying to learn how to play NL, get in and play on all streets - not just preflop and flop (which is pretty much it for a short stack).

[primate]

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IMO you should never buy in short. There are times that somoeone is gonna give you action when you flopped a set of kings against a smaller set .... and you will be kicking yourself that you did not take all his money because you bought in short.

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How about the times where he will over play his TPTK or an overpair on a rag board and lose his stack while learning? I think there are pros and cons of buying in short but when learning, just trying to point out the action isnt always good and there are advantages to buyin short especially early on.

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TPTK is the NL rookie's downfall. Learn this quick TPTK is bugger all and Top 2 isn't that much better! Am I playing too tight? Or did I just get stacked too often when I was starting out!

You start small but what is small for you might not be small for others.

[HtotheNootch]

I'm just getting into playing NL cash games. I've started out buying in with a shortstack, and then staying in the game if I happen to double/triple/quadruple up. This way I get my deep stack experience with a much smaller risk of ruin.

[yvesaint]

start at 0.5/1 or 1/2, depending on your bankroll

i dont think you need to start at any lower than that, especially if you have a strong short-handed limit background

[mason55]

A good 10/20 Limit player should be able to easily play the 1/2. You will drop a few buy-ins. You will learn a lot more, a lot more quickly. Post lots of hands, or even better, find someone who plays well and discuss hands with them. Maybe find a limit buddy who wants to learn NL so you guys can learn together. It will help because you can talk about things in terms of limit and discuss how they compare in no limit. I think having someone who plays the same game as you do currently would be really helpful. I know this is what James and DcifrThs did (they jumped right into the 2k NL games though [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img])