Set 2's will be the death of me!!

primate · #1 10-19-2005, 01:55 PM

This is the 3rd time in as many days I have been stacked by set over set. Last time it was 3 over 2's twice..... It's killing me!!

How profitable are the lower sets?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (8 handed) converter

CO ($40)
Button ($140.40)
SB ($83.05)
BB ($19)
UTG ($195.05)
UTG+1 ($96.50)
MP1 ($94.85)
Hero ($100.30)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises to $4, 2 folds, Hero calls $4, 3 folds, BB calls $3.

Flop: ($12.50) Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, UTG bets $6, Hero raises to $13, BB folds, UTG calls $7.

Turn: ($38.50) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, UTG raises to $85, Hero calls $60.30 (All-In).

River: ($183.80) 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $183.80

Results in white below: 
UTG has Qd Qc (three of a kind, queens).
Hero has 2d 2c (three of a kind, twos).
Outcome: UTG wins $183.80.

EMcWilliams · #2 10-19-2005, 01:58 PM

Re-raise more on the flop...flush draw out there and min raises are terrible. Make it like 20. I call the all in here, you are playing for set value and you hit it. If you call for set value and then fold sets you are spewing.

4_2_it · #3 10-19-2005, 02:06 PM

I have 60k hands in my PT and 22, 33, 44 are all comfortably profitable. Set over set happens and you just deal with it. Haven't you ever stacked anybody set over set? It seems to even out for me.

Mercman572 · #4 10-19-2005, 02:12 PM

22's are profitable as long as the following condition applies (as state by Ciaffone):
1. You aren't OOP in a pot that has been overcalled by a tight/decent player and are not exceptionally deepstacked (200BB or more).
2. The bet is LESS than 10% of both players effective stacks
3. Villain has tight raising restrictions (more likely to pay you if you hit since they are m ore likely to have a legitimate stack)

That being said your situation posted is indeed a profitable one

#5 10-19-2005, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
22's are profitable as long as the following condition applies (as state by Ciaffone):
1. You aren't OOP in a pot that has been overcalled by a tight/decent player and are not exceptionally deepstacked (200BB or more).
2. The bet is LESS than 10% of both players effective stacks
3. Villain has tight raising restrictions (more likely to pay you if you hit since they are m ore likely to have a legitimate stack)

That being said your situation posted is indeed a profitable one

[/ QUOTE ]

Good post. I find #2 to be a very important consideration. With -any- low to mid pockets, you want to be able to get roughly 10x what you put into the pot preflop. In addition, try to do this against an aggressive player.

A super tight-passive probably won't call your all-in reraise on the flop.

I love playing pocket pairs more than any other hand!

Sifmole · #6 10-19-2005, 02:23 PM

I am not saying I am good enough to do it consistently... but there might have been enough information to get away from this set.

Reads on the Villain would be your friend here; you have to know what that $85 bet into a $39 pot means. Has villain overplayed top pair like this previously is he willing to do this with less than a set? will he do this with a nut flush draw and a pair? A rockish player doing this move would set off alarm bells for me.

primate · #7 10-19-2005, 04:14 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I am not saying I am good enough to do it consistently... but there might have been enough information to get away from this set.

Reads on the Villain would be your friend here; you have to know what that $85 bet into a $39 pot means. Has villain overplayed top pair like this previously is he willing to do this with less than a set? will he do this with a nut flush draw and a pair? A rockish player doing this move would set off alarm bells for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was particularly tight but how on earth can you put him on anything other than KK AA? I will pay off QQ everytime. I find that folk who have very high preraising standards (he did) almost neverlay down their big pocket pairs other than to a scary board. This to me was AA or KK and the big bet was discouraging the flush draw.

Maybe if the pot was limped and I got this action I could lay down the set 2's but not against the raiser.

Sifmole · #8 10-19-2005, 04:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am not saying I am good enough to do it consistently... but there might have been enough information to get away from this set.

Reads on the Villain would be your friend here; you have to know what that $85 bet into a $39 pot means. Has villain overplayed top pair like this previously is he willing to do this with less than a set? will he do this with a nut flush draw and a pair? A rockish player doing this move would set off alarm bells for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was particularly tight but how on earth can you put him on anything other than KK AA? I will pay off QQ everytime. I find that folk who have very high preraising standards (he did) almost neverlay down their big pocket pairs other than to a scary board. This to me was AA or KK and the big bet was discouraging the flush draw.

Maybe if the pot was limped and I got this action I could lay down the set 2's but not against the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I gave the wrong impression, I'm sorry. I have no reason that I would regularly be able to lay this down in the heat of a hand either. But that is why the read for whether he would do this with less than 2 pair or a set is important -- and a difficult read to get especially while 4-tabling.

primate · #9 10-19-2005, 04:25 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I am not saying I am good enough to do it consistently... but there might have been enough information to get away from this set.

Reads on the Villain would be your friend here; you have to know what that $85 bet into a $39 pot means. Has villain overplayed top pair like this previously is he willing to do this with less than a set? will he do this with a nut flush draw and a pair? A rockish player doing this move would set off alarm bells for me.

[/ QUOTE ]

He was particularly tight but how on earth can you put him on anything other than KK AA? I will pay off QQ everytime. I find that folk who have very high preraising standards (he did) almost neverlay down their big pocket pairs other than to a scary board. This to me was AA or KK and the big bet was discouraging the flush draw.

Maybe if the pot was limped and I got this action I could lay down the set 2's but not against the raiser.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I gave the wrong impression, I'm sorry. I have no reason that I would regularly be able to lay this down in the heat of a hand either. But that is why the read for whether he would do this with less than 2 pair or a set is important -- and a difficult read to get especially while 4-tabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

How did you know I was 4 tabling?

Sifmole · #10 10-19-2005, 04:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
How did you know I was 4 tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious?