I suck, but how badly? 2/4 B&M hand

[Slim Pickens]

2/4 at Gold Coast:
The table has been oddly weak-tight save for one hypermaniac (M) and my friend, who I now know is capable of check-raising and folding to a 3-bet, which should be disallowed at 2/4.

In the hand in question, I am in MP with A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].

Preflop:
folded to me, I make a very loose call, three players limp behind me, and M on the BB checks.

Flop (5 players): T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]<font color="red">
M bets</font>, <font color="red">I raise</font>, 2 cold calls, M calls.

Turn (4 players): 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
M checks, I check, 2 checks behind.

River (4 players): A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
<font color="red">M bets</font>, <font color="red">I raise</font>, 2 folds, M folds.

1) I contend that aside from making the wrong choice at every other possible chance, my flop raise with an overcard plus nut flush draw was correct considering the table was, IMO, still loose enough to get two callers behind, and more likely 3 than 1, and possibly een a reraise from the maniac where I get to cap if enough people called my first raise such that I have an equity edge.

2) My preflop call was terrible and no one can debate this.

3) My turn check was _______.

4) Raising the river doesn't really work unless the maniac calls me without a straight and neither of the fish behind me has one either.

See, this is why I don't play ring games. I suck at them. Someone care to comment?

[hobbsmann]

You played this whole well IMO given the conditions. Axs hands are profitable from any position in loose passive type games such as live 2/4.

As you've said the flop raise is good for a couple of reasons. One you have a strong draw so you have a lot of equity in the pot, albiet you are behind if the hand ends up HU. Second though if the players behind you fold you often times buy yourself a freecard if M checks to you on the turn which is often the case in 2/4.

Come the turn your check is fine, although it could be argued that with the other players still in you will have an equity edge four ways with a pair + FD. Either way.

Since the players behind you have shown no strength at all in the hand you can't assume they will overcall on the river so raising M with two pair is good.

[Shillx]

The preflop limp isn't a bad play in general here. In fact, it probably makes no difference if you limp/raise/fold in the long run with unknown game conditions. If you had something like A7s, then you would obviously want to raise. I like a fold in the game conditions you present (tight w/ a manaic) but I'm certainly raising if I'm going to play here. With a bunch of loose players behind you (and no maniac), you could probably make a good case for just limping in here (or folding as well). It is very tough to play hands like A2s against over aggressive players since they flop weak hands and you usually get bet out of the pot with decent winning chances (though you don't know it b/c he could hold a monster or nothing when he goes crazy). It is best to play pots with strong hands that can withstand a lot of postflop action against a maniac.

The flop is probably closer then I'm assuming, but weak-tight players don't call two cold on the flop very often. This is a spot where I would raise with loose/bad people behind me since I expect them to coldcall. Here I just call and hope to make a hand that I can get into a war with the maniac with. The downside is that you can clear up ace outs with a raise, but I don't know if the upside is there in a 5 SB pot.

Bet the turn as it gives your hand away when you check on a blank. You aren't worried about spewing bets here as much as you are trying to keep the maniac honest. You lose a small fraction of a bet (at most) if you get raised now, but betting could gain you 2-3 BB of action on the river if you hit the flush since it will be tough to put you on that hand.

Brad

are you suggesting you should have raised your A2s preflop? i guess under the table conditions raising might be slightly better, but i think its close. i probably just call here.

other than that, i guess the turn could have been bet? flop and river are fine....

*grunch*
I just call the flop. You've got position on the maniac and the very last thing you want to do is be HU against a maniac with a draw. You lose your edge if the passive's behind you fold.

On the turn, you've picked up extra outs and your edge just got bigger. You've got ~40% equity I call if bet into and bet if checked to.

On both these rounds of betting, I think it's important to do what's necessary to have everyone stay and have everyone pay. Maximum edge*maximum dollars.

But in hindsight, the muppets called the flop raise anyway. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]
I still bet the turn.

[AlmightyJay]

I would bet the turn.