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#1
11-13-2005, 02:51 PM
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River Value-Bluff
MP is like 28/21 or something like that. I think he's capping like AJo+ here maybe ATs. The other guy is very loose and passive, like 70 VPIP. I think MP might call river a lot with big aces, and loose guy very well might call with any ace. It's also possible MP folds AK. Thus value bluff. Good? Dumb? Anyone checkraise flop?
Party Poker 10/20 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx Preflop: Hero is SB with K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, BB calls, <font color="#CC3333">MP caps</font>, Hero calls, BB calls. Flop: (12 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> Hero checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP bets</font>, Hero calls, BB calls. Turn: (7.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> Hero checks, BB checks, MP checks. River: (7.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font> <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds, MP calls. Final Pot: 9.50 BB 
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#3
11-13-2005, 03:57 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
I'm pretty sure I play this the same way.
Preflop is fine. Folding the flop is -EV. So, the flop debate is whether to call or raise. I think calling is slightly better. Once the turn is checked, it appears that you have a good chance of having the best hand unless the TAG is really weak-tight post flop. The river bet looks good considering you're likely to have the best hand and you can get called by worse ace hands. Looks good overall.
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#4
11-13-2005, 03:58 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
I don't see this as a bluff, as I don't think any hands you beat are folding. As for the value part, I don't think there is enough. You might be beating CO, but he could also have an underpair to the J, and simply be playing scared. Also you have to be worried that BB might has something that beats you.
I like inducing a bluff more.
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#6
11-13-2005, 04:03 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
you don't think a multitabling TAG ever folds AK here? Also, who would bluff? The loose passive? The TAG who has a hand with a lot of showdown value? [/ QUOTE ] The TAG trying to push you off your higher ace. I think fairly often enough it gets checked threw though.
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#9
11-13-2005, 08:39 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
damnit. The mythical value-bluff still eludes me. One day... [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure value bluffs are very stupid. I do understand the concept but the situations in which a player could fold a better hand or call with a worse one are usually misplayed on a street opening up a spot for an unusual play. I wouldn't look to value bluff ever. Krishan
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#10
11-13-2005, 09:03 PM
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Re: River Value-Bluff
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ] damnit. The mythical value-bluff still eludes me. One day... [/ QUOTE ] I'm pretty sure value bluffs are very stupid. I do understand the concept but the situations in which a player could fold a better hand or call with a worse one are usually misplayed on a street opening up a spot for an unusual play. I wouldn't look to value bluff ever. Krishan [/ QUOTE ] Value bluff opportunities usually arise in huge pots when you have something marginal but showdownable against an unknown (or unknowns). Since your opponent is unknown it's possible he'll fold a better hand, but as we know in large pots people will also call with some ridiculous holdings. There is also the value bluff raise, a multiway squeeze play whereby in one fell swoop you cause both a better hand to fold and a worse hand to call. This is rare and beautiful and is sometimes considered the holy grail of value bluffs.
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