Pushing with 54s

[betgo]

$300 live tournament. Blinds 200/400/50. Approximately 70 of 100 players remaining. I have somewhat above average stack. I have 6000 15xBB on button, SB has about 5000 12xBB, and BB has 4300 11xBB.

I open push from button with 54s. BB calls with A3o. What do you think of my push and the BB's call?

[Jdanz]

mediocre push terrible call. i don't really like the push, but you can do the math on when it's good pretty easy. i think that's a much better push with a 5-7 stack then 15

[Lloyd]

Bad push, mediocre call. A huge overbet/push like that is usually a steal attempt so the BB can probably assume he has the best hand. Obviously, he needs to assume he's only a marginal favorite and be willing to take that risk.

I don't like the push for two reasons. One, even making a normal raise and getting re-raised all-in allows you to get away from the hand with insufficient odds. Second, a push (like I said) this big usually seems like a steal. I think a normal raise is more likely to win the blinds in this type of scenario.

[handsome]

I think it was a mediocre push and a horrible call. The push is not excessively bad because of the high probability of stealing the blinds. I do think that you should have raised 2.5xbb (better immediate odds) rather than risking your entire stack.

The opponent's call was pretty horrible.. He obviously doesn't grasp the gap concept, which states that you need a better hand to call down than to push. He is not a big favorite over anything but A2 and a fairly large underdog to any pocket pair or larger Ax. Maybe he'd seen you make the same play before with trash.. *shrug*

[betgo]

I think the push and the call were both pretty borderline and not bad plays.

I was really pushing 12xBB, although I had 15xBB, since I had both blinds covered. The antes were very big with 3.2xBB in the pot with blinds and antes. I mistated that they were 200/400/50; they were 200/400/75 (this was the Taj Saturday tournament). I would have folded without the big antes. I think the size of the antes makes the push and call more reasonable.

If I don't get called, I pick up 1275 chips. Against A3o, I am a 53-47 underdog, so my EV is about +150 chips against the BB. If I am called by A8o or KJo, I am about a 58-42 underdog, so my EV is about -300. Against a bigger suited connector or two cards of my suit, it is somewhat worse. Against a higher 4 or 5, which is fairly unlikely, the EV is about -1500. Against an overpair, my EV is about -2400. Most of the time, no one has a reasonable calling hand, so I think this is probably a slightly EV+ play.

I could make a standard raise, but then I probably have to call a preflop push, since I don't mind being allin against overcards. It might be a difficult hand to play if I get flat called, even with position.

As for the call, the BB is in trouble versus a decent ace or a pp. He is slightly behind a really weak ace or 22. He is slightly ahead of Kx, Qx, or a suited connector/gapper. With pot odds, it may not be a bad call.

[ansky451]

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He is not a big favorite over anything but A2 and a fairly large underdog to any pocket pair or larger Ax.

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He is not really a favorite over a2.

[betgo]

[ QUOTE ]
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He is not a big favorite over anything but A2 and a fairly large underdog to any pocket pair or larger Ax.

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He is not really a favorite over a2.

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A3o is slightly ahead of a suited connector, Kx or Qx. Problem is he needs to be twice as likely to be up against a suited conector, K, or Q than a pp or big ace. A lot of people would push here with 33-99 or A9-AK, so I agree it seems like a questionable call.

BB was not a terrible player, but a loose player who didn't play correctly according to the books. He had been open raising 8xBB in rounds 1 and 2. Maybe this is a reason not raise, but I don't mind too much being called by A3o. I asked BB half jokingly how he could call with A3o (being ironic since I had pushed with semijunk). He said he thought I was bluffing (I guess the push didn't look strong.). However, you have to be able to beat a bluff to call a bluff.

[kuro]

How many times had you raised this guys blinds for him to think that A3o is ahead enough to justify the call?

[45suited]

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I think it was a mediocre push and a horrible call.

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Agreed. Even if you were being very aggressive up to this point, I can't see calling with A3o here.

I don't hate the push with 45s, but of course I'm kind of biased. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Spladle Master]

Both ridiculously bad. Call is worse than the push.