What Is The Rule On A Muck ?

[Double suited]

I was playing 4/8 at foxwoods and my hand went to showdown. The other player turns his card face up says you beat me and then mucks his cards in the pile. He did have me beat so I did not want to complain, but the dealer never saw his hand. I was told by 2 people at the table that they did see his hand. when I told the other player not to muck until the pot gets pushed your way he became moody. I tried to do the right thing but some people will always have an attitude. What is the official ruling on this. Thanks.

[aggie]

if the cards are tabled (turned face up on the table), and multiple players see the cards, the cards should speak and that player should be awarded the pot

[AngusThermopyle]

[ QUOTE ]
if the cards are tabled (turned face up on the table), and multiple players see the cards, the cards should speak and that player should be awarded the pot

[/ QUOTE ]

[ZenMusician]

I knew SOMEONE would post this [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

I was at the table in question and was seated to the right of the
ultimate winner of this hand. The board beat his kicker
and the player who thought he lost tabled his cards right in front
of him face up. At that point the dealer did not do his job, so a
friendly player (also a regular and a semi-pro) told him to turn his
cards face up, as he had turned his hand over after thinking he was
beat. The floor was called and made the correct ruling...the cards speak;
as long as the cards did not irretrievably bury in the muck pile his hand is
live and wins...had he NOT tabled them face-up at showdown, I agree
this is a muck, regardless of where they went after. BTW, nice to finally
"meet" another 2+2'er.....

-ZEN

[Double suited]

Hello Zen, nice to meet a 2+2 member. I was involved in that hand, I was wearing a U Of Miami hat. I dont remember where you were sitting or what you were wearing. The next time we see each other make sure to say hello. The only person a remember was the gentleman who was arguing in my behalf. I thank him for that, like I said I did not want to hold the game up and I did see his winning hand. My only complaint is if you don't know what wins at a showdown you should not be going to a showdown. Anyway see you next time.

[mostsmooth]

friendly semipro player who told the guy to turn his cards over should have kept his mouth shut

[ZenMusician]

Black hat, polo shirt, pyramid of yellows...remember me now? [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

see you again!

-ZEN

[SheridanCat]

[ QUOTE ]
friendly semipro player who told the guy to turn his cards over should have kept his mouth shut

[/ QUOTE ]

The cards had already been turned face up. The player than turned them over thinking he was beat. In fact the friendly player did the proper thing noting the winning hand. It's not like he saw the kids untabled cards and told him to flip them up.

Regards,

T

[RustedCorpse]

The offical line in the dealer books I've read (NJ ones) is "If a player gestures to fold, or the hand touches the discard pile, the hand should be ruled dead."

The exceptions applied to this are if the hand is turned face up to where the dealer is able to read the hand but misreads the hand then the pot will be awarded to the winning hand even if mucked.

However,

[ QUOTE ]

friendly player (also a regular and a semi-pro) told him


[/ QUOTE ]

That makes his hand dead by all rules, one player to a hand. If the player had turned over his cards THEN the semi pro said "That's the winning hand" it's ok, but when a player is told by another player to turn over his cards, it's no different than someone telling him how to play his hand.

[mostsmooth]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
friendly semipro player who told the guy to turn his cards over should have kept his mouth shut

[/ QUOTE ]

The cards had already been turned face up. The player than turned them over thinking he was beat. In fact the friendly player did the proper thing noting the winning hand. It's not like he saw the kids untabled cards and told him to flip them up.

Regards,

T

[/ QUOTE ]
i dont care if they were once turned up. like i said, its up to the dealer and the players involved. to me , the hand starts when the cards are being dealt and ends when somebody is pushed the pot, everything in between youre on your own(with dealer helping minimally). if you show your cards and muck them because you "thought you lost", and the dealer didnt see them, thats too bad and you deserve to lose.
all of the above is imho, and may be against every poker rule ever established, but its how i feel [img]/images/graemlins/cool.gif[/img]
also, there is confilcting stories as to what happened above. were the cards mucked or not? (doesnt change my opinion, just curious)