I cant win on Party Poker

[Beavis68]

Last year I started playing O8b on party and over about 1000 I was close to 10bb/100 (rough estimate based on hours and dollars).

Now since I got PTO, I have been tracking my play.

1300 hands and I am loosing 4.8BB/100.

I can't figure out what I am doing wrong.

I cannot win a big pot. My VPIP is about 21%

What should I look at? I am so sick of this, I play therer for reload bonsuses and barely break even.

By contrast, I am running about 7bb/100 on UB.

I know some will say small sample size, but I thought variance was lowere here.

[djr]

what limit are you playing?

and yes, sample size is small. But look at how far you're going with each hand. Just because you're semi-tight preflop doesn't mean you're not chasing garbage postflop

I have been having the same experience on Party for the last month. I can't figure out what I am doing wrong ... consistently losing to idiots that play hands and call bets/raises they have no business calling ... getting counterfeited ... not hitting one of my 37 outs ... blah blah. Loathe to try somewhere else because of all of the dummies, I figure it's just a bad run and things will turn around. But it really has been quite a long streak of CRAP.

Maybe it's rigged.

[benfranklin]

Even if you are very comfortable with playing ABC poker in O/8, a review of the basics can only help. I did it a few months ago, and my game improved. I quickly read through the Tenner/Krieger book again, and then did a detailed reread of Zee. Twice. The more hands you play, the more sense Zee makes. If you don't have the Tenner book, Krieger has about 5 articles in the CardPlayer.com archives that summarize it. If you haven't read Cappelletti, I'd recommend him too. (Warning, beginners stay away from Mr. Mike until you are playing well. He has some seat-of-the-pants attitudes on aggression that need to be taken with a grain of salt.)

That said, O/8 is primarily a game of hand evaluation. I assume that you have that part under control. Rule 2 is don't play post flop without the nuts or a draw to the nuts. Like all rules, this one can be violated when appropriate, but do so at your own risk.

Rule 3 is O/8 is a game of flushes. I read recently that in a 10 handed game, 7 players will usually be dealt 2 to a flush in their down cards. If there are 3 of a suit on board, don't be rammin' and jammin' your straight.

If you are doing pretty much all of that right, I think that the main reason for losing is winning small pots and losing big ones. I'm guessing that this is your problem.

There are lots of little leaky reasons for that. Some have been mentioned. Falling in love with your 2nd nut hand is a big leak. Taking off just one more card for a small bet, etc. Anytime you "know" you are doing something you shouldn't, but do it just this once is a leak.

One leak of mine I found recently was checking it down when I was heads-up and had the nuts one way and virtually nothing the other way. When you do that, best case scenario is you split the pot. If you hammer on the other guy, worse case scenario is that you split the pot. If he is checking it down with a weak low and a weak high, he could fold if you jam him.

The leak on the other side of that coin is folding that weak low/weak high when your opponent bets into you. If you are heads up and you have say the 2nd or 3rd nut low and a decent shot at high, don't fold for one bet.

Finally, a big reason for winning small pots is not playing aggressively enough post flop. A big leak here is quarteredphobia. If you "know" that you have a good hand, push it. If you have a high hand and two high cards (9 or higher) come on the flop, start betting to drive out the low draws looking for runner-runner. Again, read Cappelletti to learn to play more aggressively. Also, Miller's SSHE principles of postflop aggression translate well into O/8.

[gergery]

What are your #s for
- Went to Showdown
- Won $ at Showdown
- Won when saw flop
- pf raise
- flop/turn/river agr factor

[GeoffM]

Play 6 handed at Party. These are the juicy games on the net IMO. I am winning huge playing 6 handed as it allows me to play more hands and I am also very comfortable playing post-flop in any situation.

If you're playing 10 handed, more dummies at the table. if you are playing 6 handed, easier to isolate one or 2 dummies that aren't sharing outs and making you the dog.

[Yads]

You know what I'm having the exact same problem on UB. Party I'm fine, but UB is absolutely killing me.

[Beavis68]

I will post my stats at lunch time. We will see if anything pops out.

I feel like I am playing well post flop.

The reason why I am winning small pots is that most of the pots I win or folded or heads up on the flop.

I did have one big pot where this idiot 3-bet the river on a board of A 2 7 K 5 and I had A34x. I was multi-tabling and didn't cap it.

[toots]

I've also been having a bad run on Party. Mostly, I'm racking that up to bad luck and poor postflop play on my part.

Party Stats:

1250 hands
VP$IP: 17.44 (guess I've tightened up a lot, or maybe I'm not getting any hands)
W$WSF: 27.45
BB/100H: 1.64 (boo!)
W$SD: 58.82

The W$SD seems to be clear evidence that I'm chasing too much. The rest, I can't explain. Then again, chasing too much could easily explain the rest all by itself.

[Ironman]

Toots,

That VPIP number just looks a little low. I think it was Gooper that ran the numbers recently and it looks like the magic number to shoot for is closer to 22.

I'd look at a couple things right off the bat:

Table selection. I'm getting really good at getting up from a table that doesn't have at least 2 and possibly 3 players with VPIP greater than 70. Playerview is something I don't play without anymore.

Loosen up a little in late position. Play the naked A 3 for a flop and don't be afraid to lay it down right away.

Don't be afraid to fold A A preflop from an early position when the hand doesn't have help.

I've started making a game of it in terms of folding/not folding. I am looking to fold first and need a good reason not to fold. :-)


Good luck,

Ironman Dave