Two personal beliefs and their consequences - Page 2

imported_luckyme · #1 12-10-2005, 10:02 PM

Reading Dennett's "Freedom Evolves" would be a good start. It'll give you a grasp of how freedom can exist and the errors of determinism.

#2 12-10-2005, 10:10 PM

Why don't you explain to me some of the main points? I apologize but I seem to have misplaced my copy of (random book) it must be in my other pants.

Double Down · #3 12-11-2005, 09:09 PM

Hey guys. Really enjoying this thread. I actually have a good argument on how both free will and determinism can co-exist. But I'm out the door right now! I will post my thoughts later tonight.

Stu Pidasso · #4 12-10-2005, 10:08 PM

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This seems to me an unsatisfactory solution. What do I do?

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Postulate the existance of a superior being who gave you a soul and free will. Problem solved.

Stu

#5 12-10-2005, 10:09 PM

Until you get into the logical inconsistancies with freewill and omniscience. Regardless, I am only willing to believe things which are logical to me. To do otherwise is irrational.

Stu Pidasso · #6 12-10-2005, 10:17 PM

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Until you get into the logical inconsistancies with freewill and omniscience.

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A superior being is not by definition omniscience.

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Regardless, I am only willing to believe things which are logical to me. To do otherwise is irrational

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Are you saying its impossible for a superior being to create a biological machine? If so all those scientest working on creating life from scratch are wasting thier time.

Stu

#7 12-10-2005, 10:21 PM

If you are trying to turn this into a god argument well... go for it but I'm not gonna bite.

I am saying I cannot believe in things which are illogical. That is all.

Stu Pidasso · #8 12-10-2005, 10:28 PM

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I am saying I cannot believe in things which are illogical. That is all.

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There is nothing illogical about the existance of superior beings. However, if you're unwilling to go down that road, then perhaps you should just postulate that you have free will and be done with it. The alternative is to live with your problem.

Stu

bobman0330 · #9 12-11-2005, 01:21 AM

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I am saying I cannot believe in things which are illogical. That is all.

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Well, you've decided that what you believe to be the truth about determinism and morality is in some way "bad" even though you don't believe in any absolute standard of goodness or morality. I wouldn't go off impugning other's rationality just yet.

#10 12-11-2005, 12:55 AM

I have yet to see a particularly compelling argument against determinism. That said, it's clearly impossible to base your life on this doctrine. Even your question "what do i do?" makes no sense in a deterministic context. Why seek advice you're powerless to implement? Why complain about a solution being unsatisfactory if you're powerless to change it? Why even ask why about any of these things since you were powerless to do anything but make that post in the first place?

I think the solution is to accept determinism as being true and just file it away in the back of your mind, only to be pulled out in the case of extreme philosophical debate. Then live your life assuming that people have free will. It's not a particularly satisfying option intellectually, but I don't think an option like that exists.