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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:40 PM
DrPublo DrPublo is offline
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Default Very odd QQ spot

Full ring 200NL on pokerroom. It's my first orbit but I know MP in this hand is tight passive.

I'm on the button with QQ.

UTG limps, MP limps, MP2 limps, CO limps and I raise it to $16. The blinds drop, UTG calls, MP calls, MP drops and the CO reraises to $42.

Your move? I have about $200 left after my initial raise, UTG has $150 and the other two players have me covered.

All comments welcome.

The Doc
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 11:53 PM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

Getting 4-1 with position, I would at least call and see the flop. Someone else might come along after calling 16 and you calling in front.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:02 AM
DrPublo DrPublo is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

IMO I think calling is the worst option...putting in nearly 25% of my stack preflop is pretty bad business, I think, because the size of the pot won't really allow for any play postflop except push or fold. So its push now or fold now, I think?

The Doc
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 12:09 AM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

[ QUOTE ]
putting in nearly 25% of my stack preflop is pretty bad business

[/ QUOTE ]

Which is worse business: call getting 4-1, or putting in 90% of your stack with QQ against most likely AA/KK?

I don't want to call either but someone limp raising an 8BB bet behind them to 20BB is almost always AA/KK, so I wouldn't push.

But you are getting 4-1 on the button with QQ, so folding is tough.

If my only options are push or fold, I would definitely fold.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:07 AM
SmileyEH SmileyEH is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

Cmon CO limped after 3 limpers. Push that [censored].

-SmileyEH
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:59 AM
DrPublo DrPublo is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

[ QUOTE ]
Cmon CO limped after 3 limpers. Push that [censored].

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking exactly...and I promptly lost to AA.

WTF?

The Doc
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:07 AM
Gregg777 Gregg777 is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking exactly...and I promptly lost to AA.

WTF?

[/ QUOTE ]

I have seen quite a bit of limping with AA, but I have rarely seen anything other than AA/KK limp raise to 20BB.

In that spot I am calling with QQ and playing it for set value which I will easily get if I hit. No Q on flop, easy fold.

It may be a lousy play, but the odds are there for it.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 02:17 AM
EverettKings EverettKings is offline
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Cmon CO limped after 3 limpers. Push that [censored].

-SmileyEH

[/ QUOTE ]

My thinking exactly...and I promptly lost to AA.

WTF?

The Doc

[/ QUOTE ]

This doesn't surprise me at all. I've seen people plan to slowplay AA like this but then decide to limpraise after someone puts in a nice bet. This seemed odd to you because who the hell limps planning to limpraise after 3 people? The fact is that when he limped he didn't expect to limpraise, you're right. But then once someone's shown a willingness to put some big money in, he opts to wake up. This is not uncommon. People change their minds during a hand all the time, so unless you know for a fact that they're good and thinking players, they may not be thinking ahead so don't try to fit their line with something well thought-out.

Against this guy, what are the odds of him making this play with anything but AA/KK? Exceedingly close to zero. There is just no chance that a guy like this suddenly has the balls to make a goofy play with anything short of a monster. Just none.

Yet you still have to call for set value. Theres $90 in the pot currently. You have to call $26. You also stand to gain another $150 or so from the raiser and it's likely that one or both limpers call. All in all thats about 10:1 implied, especially since you get his stack nearly every time you set. Guys like this can't fold AA on an undercard flop, even if its QJ9. These guys are so stackable its delicious.

Good luck

Everett
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 03:27 AM
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

I think folding and pushing are wrong. Wasn't the raise only 26 to call that big a pot? You hit that queen you stack against the aces (well unless an ace hit). So you're getting over 10-1 odds here. (28 to call but if you hit you win over 280) Nobody behind you is going to come over the top.

I saw someone limp AA after six people limped into the pot just a few days ago. Yeah, I wouldn't have expected that either but it happened (he ended up stacking in a top set over middle set situation).
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:23 AM
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Default Re: Very odd QQ spot

For those saying that the odds dictates at the very least a call, if only for set value, does it even matter if its QQ? If we've already reached the consensus that we're up against a better hand, would you play 22-JJ the same way? I mean, I understand the lower the pair, the more vulnerable it is to a higher set, but how low of a pair would you call for set value in this situation?
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