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  #1  
Old 12-21-2005, 05:31 PM
EverettKings EverettKings is offline
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Default A little line check or two

Both hands were 1/2 NL on bodog, so I donno how to get nice pretty conversions. Anyway I'll try to make these presentable.

Hand #1
First hand at table

Preflop
Hero ($200) posts $2 blind in LMP
Hero is dealt AhAd
Folded to hero who raises to $7
Button ($80) calls.

Flop 8h 6h 3h
Hero bets $12, button calls

Turn 9c
Hero checks. Button bets $12. Hero is all in (effectively $50 more).

Hand #2 (early hand at another table)

Preflop
Hero is in MP dealt JcTc
One ($175) EP limper
Hero raises to $8
SB ($110) minraises to $14
EP folds, hero calls.

Flop J 8 4 (rainbow, no clubs)
SB bets $24 (~$72 behind)
Hero ?????


The issue in hand 2 is that I can't get any more information really without getting all of my chips in. And I just don't know how much I like my hand. Thoughts?

Everett
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  #2  
Old 12-21-2005, 05:49 PM
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Default Re: A little line check or two

1st hand i think you should've potted the flop and pushed the turn. You are most likely ahead and drawing to the nuts, so you should get as much money in as possible. As played, just go all-in on turn.

2nd hand - just fold. i think you are right about either going all-in or folding, and there aren't too many hands you're ahead of. From my experience, he probably has aces, even though i think he played them horribly.
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  #3  
Old 12-22-2005, 01:25 AM
EverettKings EverettKings is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

[ QUOTE ]
1st hand i think you should've potted the flop and pushed the turn. You are most likely ahead and drawing to the nuts, so you should get as much money in as possible. As played, just go all-in on turn.

2nd hand - just fold. i think you are right about either going all-in or folding, and there aren't too many hands you're ahead of. From my experience, he probably has aces, even though i think he played them horribly.

[/ QUOTE ]


Well, here were my thoughts.

On hand 1, I didn't want to lose a guy with a good heart, like KhQx, or with any one pair hand. If I'd gotten raised on the flop I'd have probably jammed it there, but because my hand was made and drawing to the nuts, I was in no hurry to build the pot right away with a strong lead. I wasn't going anywhere and I wanted to hook in whatever hands I could.
On the turn I figured he would bet any remotely made hand or any half decent draw and I could jam it then. Leading the turn would lose a lot of those hands, but almost all of them would bet when checked to.

On hand 2 I have such a hard time putting him on a range. Obviously some people play AA/KK this way, but it's so obvious that I'd think people would do this with other hands from time to time. In any case he minraised me out of position and led the flop with a non-intimidating bet, all signs that he has a big gun under there. I decided that I was probably behind and folded, especially since if I'm ahead I don't make another dime and if behind he gets my stack.

Basically I thought I played these hands OK, but -- especially in hand 2 -- I wanted to see what goes through other people's heads when put in funky spots like that. Just some general commentary would be welcome.

Everett

P.S. In hand 1 he turned out to have T7hh for the flopped flush, which I think has zero bearing on the discussion. He has the flush there like 2% of the time, it's the other 98% that I care about. Too bad I didn't suck out.
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  #4  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:40 AM
cardsharkk04 cardsharkk04 is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

Hand 1: Given the fact that you are new to the table potting the flop and pushing the turn is more likely to get a call than the turn CR, which just screams strength.

Hand 2: Against a straightforward player just fold to the min raise preflop. You'll get caught in way too many tough situations you don't want to be in.
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  #5  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:25 AM
snappo snappo is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Against a straightforward player just fold to the min raise preflop. You'll get caught in way too many tough situations you don't want to be in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Getting >4:1 in position with JTs I think a fold would be pretty bad.
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  #6  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:37 PM
Big_Jim Big_Jim is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

Hand 1: Looks good. Pot flop and push turn is also an option.

Hand 2: Fold. No way to get value when ahead, and no fold equity when behind. Also, you're probably behind.
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  #7  
Old 12-22-2005, 04:55 PM
freekobe freekobe is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

[ QUOTE ]
Hand 2: Against a straightforward player just fold to the min raise preflop. You'll get caught in way too many tough situations you don't want to be in.

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't know any other way to say it than, this is just really, really bad advice.

If the guy flipped up his cards after the min-raise and had AA, I'd call the min raise in a heartbeat.

This is a great opportunity to win a lot of money in NL.

Yes, the flop was dangerous, and yes, you may lose some money here, but there are bigger things to consider.

Personally, I would call the flop bet and see what he does on the turn. If he's the kind of player who gets super-weak after a standard continuation bet, you can re-evaluate based on his turn action. If he fires out again and you didn't connect, that's probably a fold. If he checks, you can decide if he's trapping or if you have the best hand. Regardless, you can check back and keep the pot small.

Folding to the min-raise is gross.
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  #8  
Old 12-22-2005, 05:56 PM
xorbie xorbie is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

If I had 27o I would still call the minraise.
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  #9  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:02 PM
Big_Jim Big_Jim is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

[ QUOTE ]
If I had 27o I would still call the minraise.

[/ QUOTE ]
What if button min-raised instead of SB?
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  #10  
Old 12-22-2005, 06:25 PM
yvesaint yvesaint is offline
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Default Re: A little line check or two

hand 1 looks fine, i like your reasoning plus youre not scared of any free cards really, hand 2 fold flop
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