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  #1  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:50 PM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 20
Default Ooops I missed. Line check?

Hello All,

Sorry about the format.

HIM was being really LAGGY earlier and hammered some flops and played big hands well and aggressive.

Was a bit of a calling station.

BB was sitting out, and I have protected his blinds about 8/10 times.

I made a 2 barrell bluff/semi-bluff, then hit the river.

How's my line?

Hand #10415937-91 at Tue830pmWS1-012 (No Limit tournament Hold'em)
Powered by UltimateBet
Started at 20/Dec/05 21:54:28

slob711 is at seat 0 with 5575.
dirtymott is at seat 1 with 0 (sitting out).
ME with 5270.
SaucerHD is at seat 3 with 1630.
pops11 is at seat 5 with 1120.
JC1010 is at seat 6 with 5380.
zmansher is at seat 7 with 1525.
HIM at seat 8 with 10340.
JML2 is at seat 9 with 8360.
The button is at seat 1.

ME posts the small blind of 50.
SaucerHD posts the big blind of 100.

slob711: -- --
ME: Jh Ac
SaucerHD: -- --
pops11: -- --
JC1010: -- --
zmansher: -- --
HIM: -- --
JML2: -- --

Pre-flop:

pops11 folds. JC1010 folds. zmansher folds.
HIM calls. JML2 folds. slob711 folds.
ME calls. SaucerHD folds.

Flop (board: 6d 9h 4d):

ME bets 250. HIM calls.

Turn (board: 6d 9h 4d Tc):

ME bets 500. HIM calls.

River (board: 6d 9h 4d Tc Jc):

ME checks. HIM bets 1800. ME goes all-in for 4420.

I think I'm ahead......thoughts?

Regards,
Woodguy
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  #2  
Old 12-20-2005, 11:57 PM
ansky451 ansky451 is offline
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Posts: 24
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

Me doesn't think me gets called by a worse hand enough for this to work. I mean, maybe me does. It's real thin- thats for sure. I think the flop bet is ok, but on the turn its borderline spewing. Firing out of position with basically no info-- i dont like.
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  #3  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:03 AM
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Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

I like a raise preflop here. I guess a flop/turn bluff is okay, but probably check/folding turn is best.

Why the hell did you check/push the river? Check/call or bet/call.
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  #4  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:09 AM
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Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

I like the flop bet, I HATE the turn bet. I'm checking to him. If he checks behind on the turn I'll check/call the river. If he bets huge on the river I may even lay it down pending reads.
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  #5  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:12 AM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 20
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

[ QUOTE ]
Why the hell did you check/push the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought I was ahead and he may call with a worse hand given my read.

Regards,
Woodguy
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  #6  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:30 AM
Che Che is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 229
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

Do you really have no read on his preflop open-limp? You told us a little about the guy, but knowing what you think he open-limps with would help a lot.

I think it is odd that you did not raise preflop. Perhaps you read his play as a trap and didn't want to get raised off your hand. However, if he's trapping you, you're often in bad shape when you actually hit the flop, so why not raise preflop to figure things out a little cheaper?

Postflop: Don't overdo it with the double-barrel overcard bluffs OOP, of course, but you have to fire a second barrel sometimes to keep your opponents honest. I believe you have a solid understanding of changing speeds, so I doubt you are overdoing it.

When you do hit the river with a non-flush card, I think you have to fire the third shot unless you *know* the opponent will *always* bet if you check. Even then you should probably fire the third barrel to prevent him from misclicking and checking behind. Seriously, the overcard/straight card is very likely to scare him so you can't let him get away without a value bet if you're confident that you're good (and why wouldn't you be?).

Since you posted this, he probably had K [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], but that doesn't change anything for me. Your top pair has to be beating his flush draw or flopped top pair plenty often to justify betting the river.

Later,
Che
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  #7  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:38 AM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 20
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

[ QUOTE ]
Your top pair has to be beating his flush draw or flopped top pair plenty often to justify betting the river.


[/ QUOTE ]

My problem here was that I don't see many hands that call the turn beating me on the river.

Very nice to see you posting again.

Stay away from limit hold em, that way lay madness.

Regards,
Woodguy
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  #8  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:38 AM
EverettKings EverettKings is offline
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Location: Williamsburg, VA
Posts: 86
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

Why did you even get involved on the flop in this small pot, out of position, with nothing, fairly deep, against a LAG? What the hell do you care about this pot? It has roughly zero chance to win you a big pot and lots of chance to get you to spew off a bunch more chips or back your way into a really tough decision.

As played, on the river, it's hard to tell if you're best or not but even if you decide that you like your hand, I see very little value in a raise. What worse hand is going to pay off another 2500? KJ or QJ maybe, but that's about it. The rest of the time you're going to get the same value from bluffs and other worse hands while forking over 2500 extra chips the times that you're beat.

Regards,

Everett
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  #9  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:50 AM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 20
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

[ QUOTE ]
It has roughly zero chance to win you a big pot and lots of chance to get you to spew off a bunch more chips or back your way into a really tough decision.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very true, but I didn't plan on firing a 3rd empty barrell.

Regards,
Woodguy
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  #10  
Old 12-21-2005, 12:53 AM
woodguy woodguy is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Edmonton, Alberta
Posts: 20
Default Re: Ooops I missed. Line check?

[ QUOTE ]
It's real thin- thats for sure. I think the flop bet is ok, but on the turn its borderline spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree that its pretty thin.

You don't fire a 2nd shot against LAGs who call with pretty well any two on the flop when they have position?

Regards,
Woodguy
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