Two Questions For Not Ready

[hypermegachi]

i'm just replying to this cuz it's at the bottom of the list. you mentioned it difficult to find sites explaining the Catholic doctrine. here is a really really good one i found that led me to believe that if there is a God, that Catholicism would be the most likely correct interpretor of His word.

http://scripturecatholic.com/

i have yet to find a Protestant equivalent.

[IronUnkind]

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Only by having precisely one denomination being the holder of the complete and entirely correct theology of God, can that word be effectively transmitted to the future. And only by having a complete set of beliefs that is logically coherent and based on divine revelation, can we know we possess the truth.

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And when that denomination has as its Authentic Interpreter someone like Pope John XII or Pope Benedict IX, then how is the infallible Word of God preserved? How can an institution's integrity remain unblemished when its very pillars are made of chalk?

And how can we credit this denomination with possessing the "complete and entirely correct theology of God" when its dogma is subject to change? What a great miracle The Pope performs! For where most would think that the truth is something to be discovered, he can create and destroy it by his will!

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He gave us an authentic interpreter, i.e. the Catholic Church, which has been here for nearly 2000 years (and I can easily prove exercises of papal authority and the existence of an insitutional church well before the protestant date of ca. 325 for the start of the catholic church).

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I ask you to humor me and do so, if only because it is such an easy task.

[BluffTHIS!]

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but He also will never contradict human logic.


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"My ways are not your ways and My thoughts are not your thoughts".

"Who are you, O man, who answers back to God".

" The Book of Job".

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NR, do you not see the irony of you using those quotes? You infer by your comments that logical analysis is merely "human" when applied to theology. Yet you steadfastly refuse to admit that the reason there are logical contradictions in your protestant might just be because some of the components of that set of beliefs are in error, while those of another denomination are not. So you wrap your own specific brand of christian beliefs in the cloak of "God is greater than human wisdom". Perhaps though you really just don't have a good grounding in logic to understand what it is and is not. All knowledge and science comes from God, and works of God's hands are necessarily good. You might reflect on that and seek a greater education of His creation.

[BluffTHIS!]

Iron, I don't mean to be "Unkind", but I am not going to humor you. Other christians and myself share a common context in which to place such a debate. And I have posted in the recent past regarding catholic doctrines on papal infallibility and being the one true church, even giving you links to other threads where some of this was discussed. I don't wish to repeat myself.

Hiya BluffTHIS,

"All knowledge and science comes from God, and works of God's hands are necessarily good."

That, to my mind, is the source of all inconsistencies and contradiction plaguing theists. What's worse, it closes the door to any rational dialogue or discussion, besides obviously not fitting the observable reality.

[NotReady]

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That means that God who is infinite doesn't need to spend time thinking about the things we are trying to figure out logically because He already knows them all. It says nothing of the process He has invented specifically for rational human beings to derive the truth.


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If you read it in context I think you will find it means that man is sinful and God is not.

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This quote applies only in cases where you can prove that God actually said it. How can you do that?


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I don't understand this.

Do you think that man's logic is infallible?

[Peter666]

"If you read it in context I think you will find it means that man is sinful and God is not."

Yes, that is also true.

"Do you think that man's logic is infallible?"

Theoretically yes. It is what God gave rational beings to work with.

[NotReady]

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Theoretically yes. It is what God gave rational beings to work with.


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But not practically? Man can make logical errors?

[Peter666]

If the man suffers from a mental defect or retards his logical process through passions, drugs etc. then he can make logical errors, the same way he can make mistakes on a math test or not comprehend the questions.

But if he is of sober mind and applies the correct principles he will have perfect logic just like he will have a perfect math score on a test.

The principle of non-contradiction is proof of our perfect logic. This is a principle that cannot be disputed by the human or divine mind. Because the human mind recognizes this perfect principle, the logic it uses is perfect. God cannot contradict Himself either.

[hmkpoker]

Perfect logic exists in a vacuum.

For example, yes, we can take a simple zero-sum game (let's say something like tic-tac-toe) and deduce that a certain choice is unequivocally most correct. However, add a little more complexity into it (say, the opening move of a chess game) and it becomes more difficult to deduce a perfect move.

These are simple games with few variables and perfectly understood principles. We live in a world of seemingly infinite complexity, and we do not fully understand it. Logic breaks down, as we have neither the means nor the practical method to solve real problems perfectly. To analyze a real world (i.e., not in a vacuum, like our chess game) problem with logic, we must convert X into ~X, where ~X is something infinitely easier to understand, and able to be entered into our formula.

Logic is useful, but practically very infallible.