Dealing with the turn raise

twang · #1 06-12-2005, 08:43 PM

Among lots of other things, I don't know how to deal with getting raised on the turn after I've shown aggression.

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG+2 with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
2 folds, Hero raises, 3 folds, CO calls, 3 folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO calls.

Turn: (3.75 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero bets, CO raises, Hero calls.

River: (7.75 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets, Hero?

Final Pot: 7.75 BB

Assuming I have no read, is there a default line for this one? It feels like this could be a good opportunity for villain to try a bluff on the scare card with an unimproved ace-hand or medium pair. I don't think he has a 5 though, given the pf-call. Should I assume that he did connect with the Q?

Edit: Fixed screwed up HH.

toss · #2 06-12-2005, 09:07 PM

Meh its usually reader dependent, but when the board pairs and villain raises, I often call down. It just seems that donks like to bluff at that paired board. If it was any other turn I usually muck.

damaniac · #3 06-12-2005, 09:14 PM

I'm not sure why you bet the river. If he has a Q he probably calls, you lose, sometimes he raises, you also lose. If he has a 5 he raises, you lose. If he has a busted flush draw, he probably folds, MAYBE he bluff-raises although I don't see this very often. In any event you really have nothing to gain unless he's getting a little nuts with a smaller PP or overcards or something, and the only chance you have of winning a bet when called is if he calls with a lower pp. I don't think this is at all likely enough to balance those times he has a better hand or will you bluff-raise you and force you to fold (I really don't see how you can call this river), just check/call.

toss · #4 06-12-2005, 09:16 PM

He checked the river.

damaniac · #5 06-12-2005, 09:17 PM

Sorry the red coloring threw me off. Call.

thirddan · #6 06-12-2005, 10:26 PM

i think that if you are going to call the turn then you should call when the river blanks off...basically by calling the turn you are saying that you don't believe that CO has a Q/5, so you call (since you don't have odds to draw to only 2 outs), so if you were good in your mind on the turn then you are still good on the river...but if you think that CO has you beat on the turn then you should just fold to the c/r...

Moozh · #7 06-12-2005, 11:29 PM

Ian is right. The decision is on the turn. Once you call the turn, you better be calling the river (when an undercard comes). If you think you're beat, you need to fold the turn. Whether you think you're beat or not is, of course, very player dependent.

PhatPots · #8 06-12-2005, 11:34 PM

If you call the turn raise, then you call the river. The 9 is a brick, nothing has changed. Without a read on the villain, I would call it. If that Q had been an ace, then I am more likely to fold.

Pots

chesspain · #9 06-13-2005, 01:07 AM

Calling the turn and then folding to a river brick is way worse than either folding to the turn raise or simply calling down.

SmileyEH · #10 06-13-2005, 01:18 AM

This is completely player dependant. I think I'd fold here though against an unknown - maybe a sunday night unknown I'd call down. I doubt its a big mistake either way.

-SmileyEH