200 NL, Aces facing resistance on a drawless board

[KSakuraba]

200NL, 8-handed, played just few orbits so no real reads.

Texas Hold'em No Limit EUR 1,00/2,00

Players involved:
Villain (EUR 222 in seat 4)
KSakuraba (EUR 384 in seat 7)

KSakuraba was dealt: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

UTG Fold
UTG+1 Fold
KSakuraba Raise (7.75)
Caller1 Call (7.75)
Caller2 Call (7.75)
Caller3(SB) Call (6.75)
Villain(BB) Call (5.75)

Flop (Pot ~31)
T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] - 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] - 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

SB Check
Villain Check
KSakuraba Bet (27.00)
Caller 1 Fold
Caller 2 Fold
Caller 3 Fold
gako Raise (75.00)
KSakuraba ???????

So at that point pot is ~133 and it's 45 to call for hero, villain has ~130 left.

Thanks guys,

Saku

[wslee00]

I would bet less on the flop - maybe $20. 20 accomplishes the same thing as 27 here.

What's your read on villain? If you find him to be a nut peddler, then I fold. If you merely put him on a pair of tens, then I call and then c/r all-in on the turn. I play 100NL, so I don't know how different that is from 200NL, but from my 100NL experience, he most likely has more than just top pair.

[Morrek]

Raise more preflop, you're getting way too many callers [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]
With 4 callers I'm leaning towards fold here thinking he has a set. Either that or be prepared to play for your entire stack

[ QUOTE ]
be prepared to play for your entire stack

[/ QUOTE ]
Ew. I'm not playing for my stack with 1 pair without a stellar read.

[KSakuraba]

[ QUOTE ]
Raise more preflop, you're getting way too many callers

[/ QUOTE ]

The 4xbb had been doing just fine before...

I have no real reads on villain, he has played a few pots though, without showing extremely strong hands so i wouldn't think him as a nut peddler.

I would put him on a hand range of AT, JJ, QQ, (KK would probably reraise preflop), sets, bb-specials...

And i think if i call this i would have to push the turn no matter what so isnt this just another push or fold question?
Or what is the merit of calling?

[Morrek]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise more preflop, you're getting way too many callers

[/ QUOTE ]

The 4xbb had been doing just fine before...

I have no real reads on villain, he has played a few pots though, without showing extremely strong hands so i wouldn't think him as a nut peddler.

I would put him on a hand range of AT, JJ, QQ, (KK would probably reraise preflop), sets, bb-specials...

And i think if i call this i would have to push the turn no matter what so isnt this just another push or fold question?
Or what is the merit of calling?

[/ QUOTE ]

The merit of calling is to lure in hands like AT KT etc that wouldn't call a flop push (most likely) but might get more money in there if you just call. And as you probably know if you call flop the pot gets so big that you almost have to get the rest of your (effective) stack in there unless you're 100% sure you're beat

[4_2_it]

Push or fold are your only options. He's committed to this pot and wants you to make a decision. If villain is capable of making this play with anything other than a set, then you push. If villain is a rock, then an easy fold. Sounds like you are stuck in between these options so just go with your gut. If table image plays any part in this game then I like a push. Otherwise your CB will be getting raised until you stack somebody.

[KSakuraba]

[ QUOTE ]

Ew. I'm not playing for my stack with 1 pair without a stellar read.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you just fold on the flop?

[soko]

Christ, I ran in to a situation like this like 3 times in a span of 50 hands last night, twice with KK and once with QQ, every time I folded but I stayed up in bed for at least an hour wondering if i was behind some ragged 2 pair or was being chumped around by some loose agressives.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raise more preflop, you're getting way too many callers

[/ QUOTE ]

The 4xbb had been doing just fine before...


[/ QUOTE ]

Important info, in the absence of other reads. If 4x raises are generally limiting the field, chances are that the time the same raise sees 4 callers, you've got a couple people using the 5/10 rule to chase set equity.

I still don't think it's an automatic fold. But I'd be aware that there's a much better-than-average chance I'm drawing nearly dead. Add to the very real set possibility the chance this is a BB who will call any non-suicidal raise who may have hit his 2 pair, and you're looking even dicier.

Ultimately, I'd decide like this:

- If my BR can take the hit, the combo of (chance I'm still ahead) + (willingness to show down aces so the field knows I can't be pushed around when I'm holding value) makes it worth risking a buyin.

- If the hit to BR would be fiscally or psychologically painful, fold, knowing you can find a better spot when the PFR does its field-thinning job more successfully.