Am I giving $$ away?

[TheGrifter]

I'm not sure how I feel about my line in this hand, it felt right at the time, UTG(500) had previously min. bet a couple of hands where he had top pair on every street.

5/10NL I'm in BB (1300) with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]2 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

UTG limps (sees a lot of flops) SB completes, I check

Flop is J [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
check, check, UTG bets 30, SB folds, I call

- My thinking here is that, he probably doesn't have top pair given his previous actions, and I may be able to move him off any scare card, also I'm almost definitely drawing live

Turn T [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]
I lead out for 60, UTG thinks and calls

- Following plan, was a bit disturbed when he cold-called but I think a draw is more likely than a made hand

River 6D
I lead out for 200...

I just didn't feel like my opponent had a flush here, but I don't know about this line...seems like I'm going out on a limb..comments?

[Matt Flynn]

hi grifter,

welcome to the veteran's club. i've done that a few times myself. it's been a huge loser for me over my playing lifetime. better to just let it go on the flop. sure they'll sometimes pull one over on you. but that's their right when they have position. wait until you have a good draw before playing back at them. then when you play so few hands out of the blinds and fire at them, they will - in the bigger games at least - start laying down bigger hands for you. in the end you'll make a lot more.

plus it just sucks to go home mulling over a hand where you put in a huge chunk (or all) of your stack with bottom pair with a three-flush on board.

matt

[TheGrifter]

So basically what you're saying is to wait until they know I always have the goods. And then play back at them with crap? Or never play back at them with crap at all?

[theBruiser500]

I used to make random plays like this but I have started applying your rule Matt, "no read=no bluff" and it has saved me a shitload of money. Grifter, you are getting involved in a nothing pot maybe knowing where your opponent is at, but not really and not knowing what sort of a player he is, what he'll fold there (at least you didn't say so). I vote for folding on the flop.

[Justin A]

It really pays to listen to Matt's advice. I've also found that only bluffing in ideal situations has saved me a bunch of money. In situations where I used to continue on through the turn, I've now been just giving up more often if my flop bet is called and I don't have anything but overs. Seems to be working well.

Justin A

[ALL1N]

[ QUOTE ]
My thinking here is that, he probably doesn't have top pair given his previous actions

[/ QUOTE ]

If this is your read, then I think your best turn play is to check and fold, as he could very easily have a flush here.

[Matt Flynn]

truth be told, never playing back without the goods would likely do significantly better in the long run than several bluffs into unknown hands with dangerous boards. but even better is to wait until you either have a good semibluff or have a real sense that your opponent is weak.

e.g., tuesday night we were playing $5-10 pl with a $25 straddle on the button. i had the button. utg+1 motioned to fold out of turn, then the blinds folded to utg. utg was steaming and losing big. he pounced a little too fast, making it $100 to go. looked weak to me. i made a show of looking at my cards then potted it with 63o and took it down. that's not the same as an out-of-position flop bluff with follow-through, but it is a specific situation where bluffing had huge positive edge based on read. in random out-of-position situations, "no read = no bluff" does very well.

matt

[turnipmonster]

they let you straddle on the button in that game!? that is huge, almost too huge.

--turnipmonster

[Matt Flynn]

naw. it saves a lot of time. ;-)