Ugly multiway AJo hand

Nick C · #1 10-02-2005, 06:30 AM

My problem was that I didn't trust any of UTG's bets, since she was going through a phase where she constantly took stabs if checked to when no one showed interest. Then, unless she got played back at, she'd keep betting.

Anyway, she's 71/10/1.5 after 180 hands, with a WTSD of 39 and a Won $ at SD of 35.

MP1 is 26/4/0.7 after 103 hands, with a 32 WTSD and a Won $ at SD of 40.

BB is 18/13/1.6 after 130 hands, and he's 31/67 for WTSD and Won $ at SD.

(I'm not so good at interpreting these showdown numbers, and I don't know how long it takes for them to become meaningful, but I thought I'd go ahead and include them.)

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (10 handed) FTR converter on zerodivide.cx

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, 1 fold, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, 1 fold, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (6 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG bets, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, SB folds, BB calls.

River: (10 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG bets, MP1 folds, Hero calls . . .

Yuck.

Probably there's a better line. What is it?

private joker · #2 10-02-2005, 07:09 AM

I'd fold the turn. If MP1 hadn't called, I'd consider raising or just calling. But with MP1 calling, I don't like overcalling the turn with 6 dirty outs (you can't feel great about A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] or J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] hitting the river; and if someone has a K, your J outs are dead anyway). Just fold and move on to the next hand.

lautzutao · #3 10-02-2005, 07:29 AM

I'm curious as to why you didn't bet the flop...? Nobody showed interest in this hand, why not try to take it down right here with a lead by representing AK?

private joker · #4 10-02-2005, 07:32 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious as to why you didn't bet the flop...? Nobody showed interest in this hand, why not try to take it down right here with a lead by representing AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think betting this flop would suck. 4-handed or less, I would. But 6-handed? No thanks.

lautzutao · #5 10-02-2005, 08:26 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm curious as to why you didn't bet the flop...? Nobody showed interest in this hand, why not try to take it down right here with a lead by representing AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think betting this flop would suck. 4-handed or less, I would. But 6-handed? No thanks.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, are you afraid of a checkraise? Even if everyone calls you won't be bet into on the turn and you can check if a blank falls, and maybe you spike a winning card on the river.

private joker · #6 10-02-2005, 08:42 AM

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Why, are you afraid of a checkraise? Even if everyone calls you won't be bet into on the turn and you can check if a blank falls, and maybe you spike a winning card on the river.

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I'm afraid there's no value in the bet. I don't care if I'm checkraised or not. 6-handed, I'm not getting everyone to fold, and I'll rarely get a free card on the turn. Plus, I'm offering anyone with a gutshot the right price to call. I just don't see the point in betting this flop.

I've seen a lot of careless continuation flop betting here on 2+2, and it needs to be curbed. Just because you raised PF doesn't mean you have to bet every flop. Take other things into consideration.

If you raise 99 in EP and get 4 callers and flop AQx, are you betting that flop? I hope not.

#7 10-02-2005, 08:09 AM

I count 10 very dirty outs on the turn. Not sure if your implied odds are positive or negative.
And then the SB and BB are still to speak after you, you can't really raise them out since MP1 already called with a hand that might very well beat you. Also if you just call there's a small chance that they might check-raise.

All in all I think it's close, but I would let this one go on the turn.

private joker · #8 10-02-2005, 08:15 AM

Yeah, I missed the gutshot. It makes the turn closer, but I still like a fold because any of these clowns can have a 6 as well, and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting two BBs in if a 3 hit the river. Especially the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

Nick C · #9 10-02-2005, 08:34 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah, I missed the gutshot. It makes the turn closer, but I still like a fold because any of these clowns can have a 6 as well, and I wouldn't feel comfortable putting two BBs in if a 3 hit the river. Especially the 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

The crappy gutshot, which might just give me a chop even it I hit it and there was no 6 out there, is one thing I took into consideration.

Also, when MP1 just called, I figured he probably didn't have a king. And if SB or BB whiffed on a flop checkraise, then their turn checks were very patient.

These are the things I was telling myself when I decided to call the turn, in any case.

I was also telling myself that folding and raising might both be better options. (It didn't seem to me that a raise would represent anything, though -- except maybe a slowplayed KK, I guess.)

Nick C · #10 10-03-2005, 07:15 AM

After I called on the river, BB folded, which was a relief. I was worried he had pocket sixes or something instead of just a draw and would overcall with it. (My postflop play hadn't represented much.)

UTG had J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] T [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], and MHIG.

So my play in the hand worked out this time, but it felt fishy.

For a hand where six people saw the flop, the action was unusual, I think. I kept waiting for someone besides the LAG to show some strength, and no one ever did. I guess maybe no one had anything.