Do you believe the shuffle is really random online???

[Kevin K.]

Old news.

[pzhon]

People whine about every single server. They complain about the dice on every backgammon server and the cards on every poker server.

I don't claim that all servers are fair. I don't know that. However, it is ridiculous to claim at every single server is unfair. It's just not that hard to make a random number generator that is good enough.

That means that on some servers, the cards are fair, and people whine anyway. Anecdotal evidence of unfair cards is not credible.

[piggity]

[ QUOTE ]
It's just not that hard to make a random number generator that is good enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it is quite difficult to implement a proper pseudorandom sequence that both covers the entire space of shuffled decks and is not susceptible to various exploits.

[Ralphie]

"Actually, it is quite difficult to implement a proper pseudorandom sequence that both covers the entire space of shuffled decks and is not susceptible to various exploits."

Yes this is what my research has led me to believe. Please don't get me wrong people, I'm not saying that every online poker site is fixed or that the cards are predictable. However it is a known fact that at certain times in the past people were able to predict the cards to be dealt, as well as players hole cards, either due to poor shuffles or from hacking things like hand history servers. Therefore I think it is somewhat naive to just assume the shuffles cannot be predicted/reproduced by smart groups of people, at least some of the time, at some of the sites. I have been playing poker both live and online for some time and have had a solid winning record in the past few years. When I suddenly cannot win, and seem to be getting bad beats from players who seem to play as if they know what cards are coming, I wonder if something could be wrong.

Anyway in an attempt to get this thread back on track let me say the following:

Starting late last year/early this year I suddenly found my self unable to win at the biggest online site, at the top two limits. I am just wondering if other people with winning track records have had a similar experence at a similar time. If so please post about it here, so we could compair notes and try to determine if something is really wrong. Maybe someone out there who knows something we don't will see this posts and reply.

Ralphie

[johnc]

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My bankroll grew and I wound up playing 15/30 and 30/60 everyday on a well known poker site, making a six figure income.

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Being completely serious, if you are that wary of online poker and its possible pitfalls well, take your bankroll and your skills to the B&M game where all if not most of your worries will be a thing of the past.

[theweatherman]

Notice the lack of many long standing posters. This is due to the fact that they dont believe online poker is rigged and wont bother commenting on an issue that is heard 100 times a day. If you really think its rigged then get the hell out now before you lose all your money.

Obviously the rest of the 2+2 posters have either decided that the sites are not rigged or else they have figured out how to beat any rigged site. If the latter is the case then the "rigging" sucks.

Stop whinning about downswings and unfounded conspiracies against the poker sites. If you saw every hand that was played in a day on the entire site and then saw a trend i might believe you. Since your sample is limited to your own experience it really has no weight at all.

[pzhon]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's just not that hard to make a random number generator that is good enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it is quite difficult to implement a proper pseudorandom sequence that both covers the entire space of shuffled decks and is not susceptible to various exploits.

[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't contradict what I said. You don't need to make your RNG capable of generating all possible shuffles and immune to "various exploits" for it to be good enough.

No one should be able to tell by eye whether your rivers are dealt by computer or by hand. Even if you make mistakes that would allow hackers to predict the cards, or only allow 2^100 deals rather than 2^225, casual players shouldn't notice. However, you'll hear people claim on every site that the cards are totally unbelievable.

[Ralphie]

Let me try again to keep this tread on track.

1. I am not, and have never, claimed the sites are "rigged".

2. We do know that in the past people have figured out ways
to predict the hole cards or cards yet to be dealt.

3. Given the amount of money at stake it is reasonable to
to condiser the possibiliy that this will happen again.

I had very poor results in January and Feburary of this year. The players I lost to seemed as if they knew what cards were going to be dealt. I would like to hear from anyone else who had a similar experence at or about the same time.

Thanks to anyone who wants to contribute.

Ralph.

[A_C_Slater]

How many hands have you played in these last several years? Several years doesn't mean anything if you've only played 20,000 hands in that time. Over how many hands have you been a winning player?

[Greeksquared]

just play NL, and you can find out for sure if anyone is rigging the site. Maybe they only rig the limit games. If you still have poor results just stop playing for a couple months. Hard to do, but will do alot of good in the long run.