Did I give the ENTIRE table odds to chase?

AZK · #1 06-02-2004, 01:05 AM

Regular NL .25/.50 home game ($20 buy in), that I have been decimating lately...we are down to 4 players as the latest weak player has just busted his last $60. All play is fairly straightforward and predictable, especially from the Lee Jones kid. I've been aggressively raising PF with about Any hand that has some promise due to us being 4 handed, Ax, Broadwayx, high suited connectors etc, just about the only thing I haven't been raising is low PP. I raise and pot the flop until I get resistance, then I back off. It's incredible how well this strategy works against weak tight players that are afraid to "gamble". For example, the 5th kid who busted out, folded KQ, on a K99 board because the stoner pushed all in and he was obviously up against 99 or K9. Just no grasp of solid play...anyway, on to the hand of the night and the biggest pot we've ever had, and probably I've ever lost in NL.

Hero ($63)
Lee Jones Weak Tight (LJWT) ($45)
Gambling Irishmen (GI) ($25)
Stoner ($27)

LJWT limps, GI limps, Stoner Limps, and I look down and see 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] and check my option.

Pot $2
Flop comes 8 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]7 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

I check (intending to raise - I figure it will get bet as people have started catching on to my raises in LP on the flop to take down the pot and are trying to emulate the play), LJWT checks, GI raises to $3, Stoner calls $3, I raise an additional $15 on top of that, LJWT thinks and flat calls. This is the part that terrifies me. The kid is weaktight, if he has the nuts he raises and reraises, if he doesn't he either folds (hence my bullying) or meekly calls.

Out of nowhere, both the GI and the stoner call my $15 raise.

Pot: $74
Turn: 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

I'm about to push in, but the Stoner pushes in first, I push in on top of him (he's a fool who plays any 2) trying to isolate and I'm pretty confident my hand is better than his, LJWT thinks and calls the all in, GI also calls the all in. So we are all in on the river. At this point, GI says he only has top pair (what the [censored] are you thinking?) and I'm thinking I have 10 outs to improve and even more cards that kill me.

Pot $160 some dollars
River: 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

Meh.

Outcome (in white):
 Stoner shows 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 6 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 
 I show 4 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 
 LJWT shows K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]5 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] GI mucks. 

 LJWT takes it down with a straight. 

So now I'm wondering, should I have bet more on the flop? I initially thought stoner was a moron, but he has flopped an OESD, and LJWT has flopped a gutshot and 4 flush...so I suppose nothing short of pushing my entire stack in on the flop was going to take this down, it didn't help that I had overcalls, cause it just gave each player more incentive to stay in....thoughts on the hand? my play? Shorthanded NL in general?

Side note, We have started playing exclusively NL rather than limit. Can I just say that NL is WORLDS better than limit. At least the game better suits my personality, I start off every night taking down small pots with decent size raises and everyonce in a while will be willing to gamble in the hopes of either taking someone's stack or losing my $20 to worse players so that I can rebuy for $40 and everyone starts rebuying and we can then play Deep NL. Basically no one has a clue how to play deep, a $2 raise with aces is much different with a $20 stack then a $60 stack. I broke this kid who had AA with 78o and he wouldn't stop talking about it for the rest of the night. Breaking someone is better than winning money.

Let me repeat that: breaking someone is better than winning money.

So I like making slightly -EV plays every once in a while, i.e. pushing in with AK vs. a player who I know has a pair. In the hopes of creating a different type of game that I play better at. Sort of weird, making a -EV play for +EV later on. In limit, I would regularly have up and down nights, but in NL with the same group I have been on a TEAR...who knows...just curious to hear what everyone thinks...Thanks in advance.