Wow. Just . . . WOW. (Sorry, LC)

[BeerMoney]

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11:35 Sun night there's 6 $5-10 games going. 3 avg 6-7 BB's a pot and 3 less than 5. There's never as many good games going compared to full HE tables at $5-10, and it gets twice as tight above that. Which is why banking the nice score that you did isn't realistic on a long term consistent basis. There are no where near the newbies flocking to stud like they are in HE.

I saw a young woman drop $5K of her boyfriends roll playing live $20-40 HE. She has the skill level of a .50-$1 player. You aint getting that in stud.

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This is a good post that really gets to the heart of the matter.

The 5/10 games are drying up. I see all sorts of regulars dropping down in limits.. Paigee, McNabbtoTo, Jemoinga, Roland, etc.. The 5/10 game sucks right now, and once the people who are still playing there experience the downswing the others probably have, they'll probably have to find another game.

Before you used to be able to count on 2 maybe three fish at a table. Now, you can find maybe one guy that's maybe playing a few too many hands.

The table that grisgra experienced is not common, and neither is hitting trips and getting called down. Just look at how many 5/10 tables there are that run, and see how many people post in this forum that play in those tables. That's gotta tell you something.. hmmmmm.

Who is this GolfMaster you all speak of? Has he paid for some plasma tv's for some of you?

[BeerMoney]

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Congratulations. You won a lot in one night. Quit your day job and become a poker pro.

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This is an uncharacteristic tone from you -- having a bad night at the tables?

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Yes! Terrible. seriously. I am bitter. I hate poker.

[kyleb]

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Who is this GolfMaster you all speak of? Has he paid for some plasma tv's for some of you?

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Oh yes. He only plays Stud 8/b 5/10 - 10/20, from what I know. Keep an eye out for him.

[PoorLawyer]

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Does anyone else here still play Stars 1/2 stud hi? I'm curious what other people's winrate is in this game. I only recently started keeping accurate time records to keep track of my winrate... but over the short time I have (10k or so hands) I've been running well, and my rate has been 7 BB/hr. I use pretty strict game selection (50% + to 4th, avg. pot > 6BB). I know that kind of winrate would be unattainable in any 5/10 or 10/20 game... but is a sustained 4-5 BB/hr unrealistic in the Stars 1/2 game?

I have noticed that I'm playing a lot smarter since I started keeping track of this, too [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

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I don't really keep accurate stats, but think I have a better winrate at stars 2/4 than at 1/2. For some reason, I never seem to do that well at stars 1/2...I think there are more reasonable players at that low level than anywhere else (although it is very w/t). I pretty much stopped playing at stars and go to other sites where there are always more than your requirement of 50% + to 4th, avg. pot > 6BB. Right now i am playing at a 67% to 4th, 10 BB avg. pot.

[Grisgra]

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The 5/10 games are drying up. I see all sorts of regulars dropping down in limits.. Paigee, McNabbtoTo, Jemoinga, Roland, etc.. The 5/10 game sucks right now, and once the people who are still playing there experience the downswing the others probably have, they'll probably have to find another game.

Before you used to be able to count on 2 maybe three fish at a table. Now, you can find maybe one guy that's maybe playing a few too many hands.

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Now that's just friggin' depressing. I guess I did get mega-lucky.

[BeerMoney]

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Now that's just friggin' depressing. I guess I did get mega-lucky.

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Of course you got lucky. As a 6 max player, you understand this more than anyone. Those tables are wild. One day you double up in 15 minutes, the next day you can't hit a flop with your big cards, and your top pairs are getting sucked out on. I'm sure you're a good stud player if you're able to do so well at 10/20 and 20/40 HE. I want to make it clear that I don't think you're a luck box or anything like that. We all know that from session to session, its mostly about luck, but how you end up in the long run is what's important.. blah blah blah...

I've been playing some 6 max HE myself, and to be honest, I find those games rather fishy. I seem to find a lot more "any two will do" types at those tables than I find at the stud tables. To be honest, a fish at the 5/10 stud tables is more along the line of an "any pair" type who doesn't care about his kicker or completions in front. We need to exploit these guys as much as possible, unfortunately we only have slightly less than a 2:1 advantage against them. Where as in hold 'em, you're fishy opponents are usually dominated and are in trouble if they're going to see the river.

In the past week, I've started playing more hold 'em, and I didn't think it would be as easy to find the fish, but it really is much easier. I think that's why you see people like mike emery leaving stud. There are more bad hold 'em players. There are also more experts too. That's not so bad though, you just try and stay out of their way.

Beer

[Grisgra]

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I've been playing some 6 max HE myself, and to be honest, I find those games rather fishy. I seem to find a lot more "any two will do" types at those tables than I find at the stud tables. To be honest, a fish at the 5/10 stud tables is more along the line of an "any pair" type who doesn't care about his kicker or completions in front. We need to exploit these guys as much as possible, unfortunately we only have slightly less than a 2:1 advantage against them. Where as in hold 'em, you're fishy opponents are usually dominated and are in trouble if they're going to see the river.


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The thing is that while they're sometimes dominated, often they aren't. I'd loove to have a 2:1 advantage over my fishy opponents preflop, but it usually ain't happening -- I may raise with A9s and he may coldcall with his QTo, but even then I'm only a 3:2 favorite. And he's got position on me. (Though I guess you could say the same for Stud when I raise with TTK and he coldcalls with his 779.) In Stud, on the other hand, seems to me that your 3rd street advantage against the fish is bigger. In the games I was playing there were people limping in with monster hands like KQ3r, and in the Stud8 games the number of people seeing 4th with any two low cards (K74, that kind of thing) is simply amazing. (I've put in ~1000 hands at the 3/6 and 5/10 Stud8 at Party, so I have a better feel for the players in that game.)

I did get lucky a couple hands, but the skill differential just from preflop card selection seemed huge, and as I said, I think it's more important in Stud than in HE.


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In the past week, I've started playing more hold 'em, and I didn't think it would be as easy to find the fish, but it really is much easier. I think that's why you see people like mike emery leaving stud. There are more bad hold 'em players. There are also more experts too. That's not so bad though, you just try and stay out of their way.


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Well, I'm certainly not going to disagree with you about the number of fish playing shorthanded limit HE [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]. Thing is that what makes them fish is not just their poor preflop play, but poor postflop play, and while I may be wrong I feel more "protected" by playing smart preflop in Stud and Stud8 than I do in SH limit HE. My advantage preflop seems greater *and* it just seems easier to decide when to leave and when to stick around.

EDIT: Um, of course, my entire point in this thread was that the Stud fish I was up against sucked not just preflop, but postflop (calling me down all the way after I paired my door card). So I'm not really sure what my point is, after all of this.

Except that it's depressing to hear that the 5/10 Stud players normally aren't nearly as bad as they were last night.

[BeerMoney]

Quote from 7CSFAP:

"Remember in stud, you are rarely drawing thin."

Do some simulations. You'll see what I'm talking about. I think the good players in stud know how to build pots with mega draws, and fold to paired door cards, etc..

And yes, I am finding out rather quickly how much unimproved big cards suck out of position.

[kyleb]

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Quote from 7CSFAP:

"Remember in stud, gamboooooooooooooooooooooooooool."

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FYP.

[Beavis68]

Reminds me of this post.