Ultra high buy-in SnG...beatable?

[stupidsucker]

BTW FWIW When you speak of "The Best Players in the world" And you are talking about performance in a SnG And what level would they play in etc...

The best players in the world as far as SnGs are concerned can be found in one place... They are playing SNGs right now at the 215 level.. SnG is a special game, and until you have studied on special SNG strat then I dont care what poker super star you are you arent better then the ones grinding it out right now playing SnGs. Illl bet if XYZ poker star sat down at a 30+3 he would have a lower roi then me until he learned the game style.

[Daliman]

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2. A very, very good player should be able to beat $200+15's for at least 30% ROI, probably closer to 40.


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Jesus topped out at 23%

Seriously, 20% is about the max, and that's likely only doable single tabling very selectively.

lol, maybe Jesus

maybe

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[AlexM]

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Edit: On second thought, i cant buy this. I dont think that is possible. I may be wrong, but i dont think 40% is achievable at 200+15 for ANYONE. 30%, ok, not 40. But i dont play that level, so i may not be the best authority on what is possible

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Well, my whole impression of your post was that you were talking about the very best in the world, as that's the language you used, and the fact is, the $200+15 players at Party are very weak when compared to say Daniel Negreanu, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if players of that calibre could beat them for 40% ROI.

[Daliman]

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Edit: On second thought, i cant buy this. I dont think that is possible. I may be wrong, but i dont think 40% is achievable at 200+15 for ANYONE. 30%, ok, not 40. But i dont play that level, so i may not be the best authority on what is possible

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Well, my whole impression of your post was that you were talking about the very best in the world, as that's the language you used, and the fact is, the $200+15 players at Party are very weak when compared to say Daniel Negreanu, and I wouldn't be at all surprised if players of that calibre could beat them for 40% ROI.

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Not a chance in hell. I'd book that bet all day, every day, (if I wasn't currently broke...)

You stick Negraneu at a table with PP's SNG structure along with Gigabet, Dr._Gammon, ZeeJustin, Rojosox, myself, and 4 random players of varying skill, and he would have a hard time beating the rake,(as would we all).

The top players at party are among the top players in the world for that structure currently playing, period, and many excellent NL players have a hard time adjusting to them.

[AlexM]

I was talking about *average* $200 SNGs, not the ones full of all the best regulars, but even then, you guys are good, but not *that* good. Get over yourself.

[adanthar]

What would happen is this:

-Negreanu raises with two cards
-Gigabet/redsoxr1/actionmonkey reraise with two cards
-Negreanu folds
-Dr_Gammon calls and bitches about getting sucked out on

Repeat for a few dozen SNG's until he adjusts, at which point they all wind up within 5% of each other and push chips back and forth all day because none of them make all that many mistakes.

[lacky]

I think your way off on this. Many top pros play some single table satalites which are similar, but not exactly like normal sng's. The best of the best would not have a problem see the differences and adjusting.

[assron]

I'm going to agree with Daliman on this one... I'm not one of the regulars or anything, but I play some 215s when I feel my game is on point and I can make a few bucks if I catch a hot streak; I hold down a ~10% ROI, though I do it as much for sport as anything else. Anyhow, I really dont think the game can be played much better than the top 215 players play it. There's a certain way to play the game that they all understand, and I dont think any of the world's best could really find a significant edge over the strategies that the top 215 players employ. It's just too quick, and too relatively simple, of a game. I'm sure they could adjust, but the structure is such that either you're playing a winning or losing game at the 215s, there's very little gray area. The bets during crunch time are also very black and white -- I challenge anyone to put me on a hand any time I raise in level 4+, it's just not doable -- and there's also very little room to play the hands out, you either get in or get out. I do see a Negreanu getting way more 1sts than seconds, working over some of the top 215 players in heads up situations, and maybe that would be the edge, but up until then I think it's about zero sum between him and a guy like Daliman.

[Daliman]

We don't have to be *that* good, and I know you meant the average game. But we *are* that good, and it's because of the PP stucture we have broken down into a science. Gig will make more moves, I will press harder at the bubble, and Dr. will never make a mistake, but we all have the nuts and bolts down dead solid perfect. COuld Negreanu play them better than us? In time,(not much), I'm sure of it. COuld he get 2 to 3x our winrate? No chance.

[ilya]

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2. A very, very good player should be able to beat $200+15's for at least 30% ROI, probably closer to 40.


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lol, maybe Jesus

maybe

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Or DonButtons
Or thehorror